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Castle Paradox
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Clamps
Slayer of the Moon
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Moogle1 wrote: | | Really -- you think so? I thought just the opposite, though new features are continuously added to the OHR in a manner that is less than elegant. If you want to make a vanilla RPG in OHRRPGCE, you go draw up some graphics, make up some maps, define some stats and attacks, and poof! You're done. I remember RPG Maker being more confusing to navigate, but then I never used XP, which might have a much nicer GUI. |
I suppose it's all subjective. To me, RPG Maker is a much better engine for beginners, and OHR is a much better engine for experts. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that, but it's hard to get experts if the beginners don't like it. *Shrug*. It's not really a big deal, anyway.
In less wishy-washy and subjective ideas, from the perspective of a player:
I'd like to be able to buy equipment from the equip screen of the shop. Try the items on. At the very least, I'd like to be able to know how good Pleather Armor is before I buy it, rather than buying it and trying it on.
I'd like to know what stats are being affected by moves. I replayed Vikings of Midgard to get my thoughts going, and I saw the Ogres doing moves that got them +1 and +10. But I didn't know what it being added to. While we're at it, there should probably be some way for the player to distinguish between a move than adds +10 to Magic each time it's used, and an attack that sets his magic to 110% it's normal value, and doesn't stack. That's probably more the job of the game maker, though. If and when battlescripting gets implemented, this would probably be trivially easy for the game-maker to do, but I think adding a bunch of blank status effects that don't do anything but show up when the player uses the 110% move would be a decent fix short-term. Like, have a "protect" spell that adds status effect 4, called "Protect". It doesn't actually do anything except show the icon for "Protect", with the attack itself doing the stat-changing. Debuffs could remove the status, again doing nothing but cosmetic change, with the attacks themselves working as normal. |
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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I can understand RPG Maker being more intuitive, but I am hoping we can convince people that the OHRRPGCE is viable for games that are to play, not just to make.
| Quote: | | I'd like to know what stats are being affected by moves. I replayed Vikings of Midgard to get my thoughts going, and I saw the Ogres doing moves that got them +1 and +10. But I didn't know what it being added to. While we're at it, there should probably be some way for the player to distinguish between a move than adds +10 to Magic each time it's used, and an attack that sets his magic to 110% it's normal value, and doesn't stack. That's probably more the job of the game maker, though. If and when battlescripting gets implemented, this would probably be trivially easy for the game-maker to do, but I think adding a bunch of blank status effects that don't do anything but show up when the player uses the 110% move would be a decent fix short-term. Like, have a "protect" spell that adds status effect 4, called "Protect". It doesn't actually do anything except show the icon for "Protect", with the attack itself doing the stat-changing. Debuffs could remove the status, again doing nothing but cosmetic change, with the attacks themselves working as normal. |
I try to subvert this issue by using a combination of "Show Attack Name" bitset and the Captions. I use captions mostly for battle scripted events, and the Attack Name for saying "Def. Boost" or whatever. This still isn't too intuitive while playing, but it's an attempt.
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: |
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I used to use RPG Maker 95 before I came to the OHRRPGCE and yes it was a lot easier to use, for one because you could use your mouse but the main reason why it was easier was because they offered hundreds of predone graphics and monsters already. Also you have overviews about all set quest variables on one screen and stuff like that. You could also "click together" your plotscripts.
I really hated the jump from RPG Maker 95 to 2k. The 2k one didn't have so cute graphics anymore (and also less) so I didn't feel like using it anymore. I wonder if I'm the only one who thinks 95 had better graphics. In the japanese version there was a maptile set that was the most beautiful maptile set I've ever seen.
Anyways, the advantage of the OHRRPGCE is that it's much easier customizable. Another advantage was always that the community is more experienced and friendly (well not so sure about now, but 6 years ago the whole community was like a big team).
Also almost all the features Clamps asked for can actually already be done with the OHRRPGCE. Skills can be given text so the player knows what they do or they can just show the skill name, or even show the stat that got changed (if you put it as the 'short' skill name and then display this as damage).
I also dislike the fact that you can't see the stat changes of your characters when buying items in a shop, but this can be solved by putting the stats into the item description like:
SWooden - A sword made of wood (Atk+4 Acc+2)
RWooden - A rod made of wood (Atk+2 Int+4) |
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Clamps
Slayer of the Moon
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Rya.Reisender wrote: | | I used to use RPG Maker 95 before I came to the OHRRPGCE and yes it was a lot easier to use, for one because you could use your mouse but the main reason why it was easier was because they offered hundreds of predone graphics and monsters already. Also you have overviews about all set quest variables on one screen and stuff like that. You could also "click together" your plotscripts. |
Honestly, something like that for the OHR would be the coolest thing ever. I wish I new enough about programming to make one.
You're right though about the OHR being more customizable. That's why I use it. I just feel the learning curve for doing so is very steep. It's made for experts.
I started using the OHR waaaaay back when Paternoster came out (I left for a while for various reasons, partly intimidation, partly lack of patience with BAM, partly time constraints, and partly because I think Moogle1 called me "daft"). It game with a game that explained how to do the things in the game. What happened to that? That was a good idea.
| Rya.Reisender wrote: | Also almost all the features Clamps asked for can actually already be done with the OHRRPGCE. Skills can be given text so the player knows what they do or they can just show the skill name, or even show the stat that got changed (if you put it as the 'short' skill name and then display this as damage).
I also dislike the fact that you can't see the stat changes of your characters when buying items in a shop, but this can be solved by putting the stats into the item description like:
SWooden - A sword made of wood (Atk+4 Acc+2)
RWooden - A rod made of wood (Atk+2 Int+4) |
I guess the captions are a workaround, though like all workarounds, not as good. Especially if you want to make an armor that affects a lot of different stats, or a long boss battle where the player might easily forget he already boosted his speed. |
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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If you ask me, armors with various stats are kind of bad game design, just makes the game more complicated without any major gameplay gain. And well it's not too bad forcing the player to try out different equips. If it wouldn't be in almost all OHRRPGCE RPGs I'd actually consider it a feature.
About the thing that the OHRRPGCE is only for "experts", I think this really depends on the current community. I was gone for several years so I'm not fully sure, but if I'm stuck somewhere and find someone who answers my question fast, then it doesn't matter if it's complicated at once because I can get help fast.
In fact what annoys me most in this aspect is that IRC is totally dead and I'm really lucky if I find a single active person there. But I don't really want to ask the others to join because I'd be afraid that the 'flamers' will come too. ^^' |
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Rya.Reisender wrote: | | I used to use RPG Maker 95 before I came to the OHRRPGCE and yes it was a lot easier to use, for one because you could use your mouse but the main reason why it was easier was because they offered hundreds of predone graphics and monsters already. |
That doesn't make it any easier to make your own. This was one of the biggest annoyances I had with RM2k -- making and importing your own graphics was a pain.
| Clamps wrote: | | (I left for a while for various reasons, partly intimidation, partly lack of patience with BAM, partly time constraints, and partly because I think Moogle1 called me "daft") |
I don't remember that at all, but that's hilarious. (It must be "Remind Moogle of Funny Things He Said Years Ago Week.")
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I don't remember what you told me years ago so I can't join the week. :-(
And yeah RPG Maker is better if you just want to use the predone graphics. |
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Clamps
Slayer of the Moon
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Moogle1 wrote: |
| Clamps wrote: | | (I left for a while for various reasons, partly intimidation, partly lack of patience with BAM, partly time constraints, and partly because I think Moogle1 called me "daft") |
I don't remember that at all, but that's hilarious. (It must be "Remind Moogle of Funny Things He Said Years Ago Week.") |
Mm. I had somewhat....lofty goals at the time. I think I wanted to make a game so expansive I'd end up hitting all the technical limits. Using every single one of those 32,000-odd text boxes, etc. |
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Ronin Catholic
Deadliest of Fairies
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 530
Location: My Girlfriend
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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It turns out the files were missing, as you said. When I downloaded Voxhumana, the support folder was there.
Maybe I should discuss that harmtile glitch I found in Wolfwood sometime...
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"I didn't start the flame war;
I don't know what you thought here
'Twas that way when I got here"
"I didn't start the flame war;
I can't understand a word you're saying
nor the game you're playing~" |
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msw188
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 1041
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Equipment that affects various stats can potentially make things interesting, but it needs to be both noticably beneficial and somewhat intuitive, I think. The real key would be turning this topic back to the original intent with the following:
Suggestion 2,374 (may also have been posted somewhere in the past) - With plans on increasing the item limit and possibly changing how items are handled, can we get the ability to change equipment in-battle?
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My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161
This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew:
www.euphonicbrew.com |
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