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"Finish Your Dang Game" Download Links and Voting
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: "Finish Your Dang Game" Download Links and Voting Reply with quote

EDIT: The contest is over! Check this thread for results.

The "Finish Your Dang Game" Contest is drawing to a close!

I will be updating a list of submissions here for easy downloading. It is highly recommended that anybody who is competing for the "Most Improved" prize should also provide a link to an old copy of their game for comparison. If you don't, some judges may assume that you are not competing in that category.

Post all comments about game completeness here, but send your votes for "Best" and "Most Improved" directly to me via Private Message, or via e-mail to Bob@HamsterRepublic.com

For review, here are the voting rules, copied-and-pasted from the full rules.

=VOTING=

After the contest ends there will be a 1 month judging period ending on September 30th. (NOTE: Due to the large number of submissions, this voting period might need to be extended slightly) Extended to Tuesday Oct 20th. Winners will be posted on Wednesday Oct 21st

Voting will be done in three parts. First, each voter will vote for each game by secret ballot (e-mail or PM to me, James) in the following two categories:

(1) Overall quality from zero stars (low) to 5 stars (high)

(2) Level of improvement from contest start to contest end. from zero stars to 5 stars.

Finally, each voter will publicly vote at the completeness of each game in a public thread.

(3) Complete? Yes/No. Completeness is defined as being a whole game that can be reasonably called finished. Complete does not have to mean perfect. It does not have to mean zero bugs. It just means "not incomplete anymore"

=LATE SUBMISSIONS=

Late submissions are okay (The penalty for late submissions after the Sept 1st deadline is 4% per day)

So that makes Sept 25th the last day for late submissions.

And I am sorry I didn't clarify this sooner, but the late penalty of 4% per day is deducted from your score for "Best" and "Most Improved" categories, but deducted from your $5 prize for the "Completeness" category.

=CONTESTANT DOWNLOAD LINKS=

I will do my best to keep this list up-to-date as the entries roll in. If I missed anyones game, please let me know!

* Onlyoneinall - Bloodlust 1.1 (old version)
* godsavant - Tower of Heaven (old version)
* beau_rl - Test of Normality (old version)
* Mogri - Phantom Tactics (Chapter 1) (old version)
* Machu - Modern Magic Preview Demo (old version)
* Blue Train - Dawn 25% Demo (old version)
* Rurouni Catholic - Maces Wild (old version link missing)
* Ysoft_Entertainment - Kana Learning (16% late)
* Spoonweaver - House Escape (old version) (48% late)
* James Paige - Wandering Hamster (old version) (48% late)
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Baconlabs
PURPLE IS MANLY




Joined: 15 Mar 2009
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Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: "Finish Your Dang Game" Download Links and Vot Reply with quote

I don't see a Wandering Hamster yet. Sadness.
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Bob the Hamster
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: "Finish Your Dang Game" Download Links and Vot Reply with quote

Baconlabs wrote:
I don't see a Wandering Hamster yet. Sadness.


Well, I came nowhere near finishing it, but I will have a new demo ready a few days late.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, heads up to anyone who downloaded Phantom Tactics already: If you can't see the HP bars, you have an old version of GAME. Unfortunately, I forgot to include the DLLs with the executable I packaged with the game. That's been corrected, so if you redownload and use the included game file, you should see the HP bars and everything else correctly.
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Rya.Reisender
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow you really managed to make an SRPG that's actually playable with the OHR? Have to try that one. I'm looking for a good SRPG for ages, but they are hardly any indie ones and SRPG Maker 95 completely failed and never got a sequel. I remember once suggesting James to make an OHRRPGCE for SRPGs, but that was years ago.

Also I might play multiple of those games if they are really complete games. The OHR is indeed lacking complete games (but that's the case for most indie game communities).

Edit: Oh and PLEASE always provide an Exe-File (and all required files) for your game in every zip you create. Not so much for me, but it's really a pain to make OHRRPGCE games popular in other communities if they can't just be downloaded and started. It may sound silly, but telling someone that he has to download some additional exe-file to play the game will usually result in a reaction like "uh nevermind then", not to mention the hundreds of people that don't even ask about it and just see that there's no exe and ignore the game. Bloodlust is a good example on how a zip-file of a complete OHRRPGCE game should look like.

By the way, are the contests still so that you really have to vote for every game of the contest?

Edit2: Tried out your game (Phantom Tactics) now, pretty nice and actually playable compared to OHR Tactics from years ago. Some things that could be improved:
- I couldn't figure out how the exp system works and it's not explained in the doc file, after the first battle I hardly had any exp.
- I think the HP should be displayed even if you have the green bar; also 0 HP should make the green in the bar disappear completely, your 0 HP currently looks more like 1 HP.
- This is more a personal opinion but I despise perma-death in SRPGs, there's no point in putting that in, either make a "game over" directly when one person dies or auto-revive them after each battle, this will also fix the problem that the dead characters still talk in the dialogues! Really name me one good reason to add a perma-death like that. It's harder to code, 99% of the players will reset their game when they lose a character anyway and it also somewhat takes away a few possible strategies.
- There seems to be a lot of misses and I got the impression that the whole battle system rather depends on luk than strategy.
- I'd add a healer into the starting party, healers are always a nice addition to the strategy.
- The graphics could be improved, really I can see many people getting interested in that game's concept so you might find some people who want to help out with those. But if you can draw trees like that you should also be able to make a better grass tile.
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Baconlabs
PURPLE IS MANLY




Joined: 15 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rya.Reisender wrote:
- I'd add a healer into the starting party, healers are always a nice addition to the strategy.

Especially considering those goddamned zombies that you'll inevitably have to fight. This means at least one of your party members WILL be left on the verge of death for the rest of the battle.
On the same map, I couldn't see the boss's move range, so I assumed he was immobile, but he is not. This should be fixed.

Whoops, this thread is supposed to be about the contest. OH WELL
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback.

Quote:
- I couldn't figure out how the exp system works and it's not explained in the doc file, after the first battle I hardly had any exp.

I'll put this into the doc file, but the short version is that it's almost a carbon copy of Tactics Ogre's system: you get XP for acting in battle as long as you don't miss, and you get extra XP for landing a killing blow. XP received is bigger if the unit's level is lower than the enemy's.

Quote:
also 0 HP should make the green in the bar disappear completely, your 0 HP currently looks more like 1 HP.

You're not the first person to suggest this. I forgot to do this, but it should be corrected by the next release.

Rya.Reisender wrote:
- This is more a personal opinion but I despise perma-death in SRPGs, there's no point in putting that in, either make a "game over" directly when one person dies or auto-revive them after each battle, this will also fix the problem that the dead characters still talk in the dialogues! Really name me one good reason to add a perma-death like that. It's harder to code, 99% of the players will reset their game when they lose a character anyway and it also somewhat takes away a few possible strategies.

Dead characters don't talk in the cutscenes. Try it. This makes little difference until the last cutscene in chapter 1, where everyone has a line and if everyone's dead, the dialogue changes significantly.

Permadeath is an important mechanic in Phantom Tactics because, starting in chapter 2, units are expendable. You use your money to buy replacement units. It's not like Fire Emblem where you get story characters and losing someone means permanently being short a unit. It's not like Final Fantasy Tactics, where losing a unit means losing all the JP and Exp the unit had acquired. It's not even the relatively mild Tactics Ogre, where units all started at level 1 but you could quickly retrain a replacement. With enough money, you can buy units better than the ones you lost.

If permadeath really annoys you, play on easy, where it's disabled and you do get your units back after each battle. Just know that you're robbing yourself of some of the game's major tactical decisions down the line.

Quote:
- There seems to be a lot of misses and I got the impression that the whole battle system rather depends on luk than strategy.

Bowmen never miss. Fencers get an evasion bonus. If your accuracy is low, try including Janus in your party for the 25% stat boost.

Quote:
- I'd add a healer into the starting party, healers are always a nice addition to the strategy.

Not gonna happen, but you'll get one in chapter 2. (Note to Baconlabs: zombies are the only reason that battle is challenging!)

In all likelihood, expect to be disappointed with the healers, though. They can heal multiple units per turn, but they don't heal for a huge amount. Multiple healers don't stack, either: although you can have more than one in your lineup, units will only benefit from the most powerful healer adjacent to them at the start of the turn.

Quote:
But if you can draw trees like that you should also be able to make a better grass tile.

I can't draw trees like that. You think I did those pixel-by-pixel?

Whoops, this thread is supposed to be about the contest. OH WELL
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Baconlabs
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moogle1 wrote:
Dead characters don't talk in the cutscenes.

On the second-to-last map (Medium difficulty) I lost my fencer, and he still talked.
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Rya.Reisender
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you ask me, discussing the CONTEST GAMES is part of the contest, isn't it? Unless we open a thread for each contest game, all should be discussed here.

Quote:
I'll put this into the doc file, but the short version is that it's almost a carbon copy of Tactics Ogre's system: you get XP for acting in battle as long as you don't miss, and you get extra XP for landing a killing blow. XP received is bigger if the unit's level is lower than the enemy's.

Just a small thing: Can you do it so that missing still gives 1 XP or maybe 2 XP if the enemy level is higher.
As I said the game seems pretty random with all the misses and if the XP system depends to 100% on it, it's even more dependant on luck.
It would make me really happy if it wasn't completely in vain.

Quote:
Dead characters don't talk in the cutscenes. Try it. This makes little difference until the last cutscene in chapter 1, where everyone has a line and if everyone's dead, the dialogue changes significantly.

Then this is a bug. I lost my thief in the second battle and he still talked. His sprite wasn't visible anymore, though.

Quote:
Permadeath is an important mechanic in Phantom Tactics because, starting in chapter 2

Quote:
Not gonna happen, but you'll get one in chapter 2.

Too bad the game only goes up to chapter 1.

Quote:
If permadeath really annoys you, play on easy, where it's disabled and you do get your units back after each battle. Just know that you're robbing yourself of some of the game's major tactical decisions down the line.

This is actually pretty awesome, optional permadeath is something I've never seen in any SRPG before.
I'd make it as a separate option, though, like:
Select Difficulty: Easy/Normal/...
Permadeath: Yes/No
So you can play on very hard without permadeath and on easy with permadeath (assuming there are other differences between easy and normal).
Because I personally would also be interested to play the game on a harder difficulty, just without the permadeath and try an easier difficulty with permadeath.

Quote:
I can't draw trees like that. You think I did those pixel-by-pixel?

I actually thought someone else did the graphics because some things didn't look like your usual style.

Quote:
I forgot to do this, but it should be corrected by the next release.

Can you please tell me when you'll make the next release? Because I want to review your game in my community and if you're going to make a quick fixup release, I'll wait until then.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baconlabs wrote:
On the second-to-last map (Medium difficulty) I lost my fencer, and he still talked.

What nooooo

This is probably related to a bug I filed, where hero tags aren't getting set/unset correctly. I'll go pester the devs.

Rya wrote:
Can you do it so that missing still gives 1 XP or maybe 2 XP if the enemy level is higher.

No, and you're lucky you get XP for zero-damage hits. This isn't Happy Feelgood Land, where if you show up for the game then you get a prize. You've got to actually contribute to battle to get XP. I don't know of a single game that gives per-action XP for attacks that miss.

Everyone has an Aim stat and an Evade stat. When Aim = Evade, you have a 70% chance to hit. When Evade is higher, your hit% decreases, to a minimum of 20. If a character is missing too much, pair him with Janus or make sure he attacks multiple times per round.

Quote:
I lost my thief in the second battle and he still talked

This is an oversight on my part -- I forgot I'd given him lines following a battle where he's able to die.

Quote:
This is actually pretty awesome, optional permadeath is something I've never seen in any SRPG before.
...
So you can play on very hard without permadeath and on easy with permadeath (assuming there are other differences between easy and normal).
Because I personally would also be interested to play the game on a harder difficulty, just without the permadeath and try an easier difficulty with permadeath.

Removing permadeath takes away a big part of the difficulty, since you can throw all your units at the enemy without caring who survives. Part of the theme of the game is that you're the prince, the overseer of your people, as well as the general, the leader of your troops. It's your ethical imperative to decide to what extent your men are expendable. For novices to the genre, the Easy difficulty is available, but removing permadeath sacrifices not only some of the game's core mechanics (e.g. recruiting troops) but also the emotional impact of losing a unit and the game's thematic integrity.

Quote:
I actually thought someone else did the graphics because some things didn't look like your usual style.

Twinhamster did all of the unit graphics and animations. I did all the maptiles and, well, everything else.

Quote:
Can you please tell me when you'll make the next release? Because I want to review your game in my community and if you're going to make a quick fixup release, I'll wait until then.

I can do a bugfix release. I'll put it out this weekend.
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Rya.Reisender
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you gotta understand that I give these suggestions because I think it would make the game more enjoyable. I can't force you to implement them but really, take them to heart. If I think so others might too.
Quote:
This isn't Happy Feelgood Land

This is a sentence I have especially problems with. Games should be happy feelgood land for the player, shouldn't they? If you make a game just to show your opinion on games you'll end up having much less people enjoying it. Again if you want to do it I can't stop you, but I was like that for quite a long time and realized now that it's better to listen more to players than yourself.

Quote:
I don't know of a single game that gives per-action XP for attacks that miss.

Hello? Shining Force? The best SRPG series ever? Oh wait, you're of the Nintendo fraction, aren't you.

Just for your information: In Shining Force damaging an enemy will give you damage*enemylevel/yourlevel exp. Killing an enemy will give you additional 50 exp. Healing gives around healedhp-yourlevel exp, but can give more if you heal more than your level is high. After the exp gets calculated it will be put on some kind of logarithmic curve where the exp never goes above 50 (or above 48 in the first part) and healing never goes below 10 exp. So the system is pretty similar to yours. And there attacking an enemy or healing with an item if you are not a healer will give you 1 exp.

Also if you go by sense I'd argue that attacking someone but missing would actually give you lots of experience in real life. I mean you learn from mistakes much more than you learn from succeeding.

Quote:
Removing permadeath takes away a big part of the difficulty, since you can throw all your units at the enemy without caring who survives. Part of the theme of the game is that you're the prince, the overseer of your people, as well as the general, the leader of your troops. It's your ethical imperative to decide to what extent your men are expendable. For novices to the genre, the Easy difficulty is available, but removing permadeath sacrifices not only some of the game's core mechanics (e.g. recruiting troops) but also the emotional impact of losing a unit and the game's thematic integrity.

Yeah that's why I said optional. I mean you can copy what you just wrote into the game as a warning and then the player needs to confirm "Do you really want to disable permadeath?".

Quote:
Twinhamster did all of the unit graphics and animations.

Oh that makes sense! He still does the mistake I pointed out to him a year ago to highlight the outlines too much. Hint: Make him draw a skeleton.



What I also wondered, will you add possibilities to level up? I mean like, escaping a battle and retrying it with experience kept or some kind of random encounter feature.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rya.Reisender wrote:
This is a sentence I have especially problems with. Games should be happy feelgood land for the player, shouldn't they?

No, but that's an argument for another thread.

Quote:
Just for your information: In Shining Force damaging an enemy will give you damage*enemylevel/yourlevel exp.

So if you don't damage the enemy, you don't get XP? Shoot, my game's lenient. Sounds like it's not on a 100 XP/Lv scale anyway.

Quote:
Yeah that's why I said optional. I mean you can copy what you just wrote into the game as a warning and then the player needs to confirm "Do you really want to disable permadeath?".

Again, returning to the earlier argument (which is still better off living in a thread that's not this one), the player shouldn't have creative control over the game. Deciding when to give XP is a design decision that doesn't have much impact on the game experience, but taking away the player's responsibility for the lives of his men has a profound impact on the experience.

To put it another way, FF7 doesn't prompt you on whether Aeris should stay dead. That would cheapen the emotional impact of her death (let's ignore, for the sake of discussion, your personal feelings on Aeris). Yes, the player probably wants to keep Aeris in his party, especially if he went out of his way to get all her Limit Breaks, but that's not the experience the designers created for you.

If you want to discuss this further, let's do it somewhere other than the contest thread.

Quote:
Hint: Make him draw a skeleton.

There are skeletons in 1-4 and 1-5, which look fine to me.

Quote:
What I also wondered, will you add possibilities to level up? I mean like, escaping a battle and retrying it with experience kept or some kind of random encounter feature.

Chapter 1 is very linear -- it's essentially a prologue. I haven't entirely decided whether to include random encounters (VP:COTP doesn't, which only adds to the difficulty), but I'm leaning towards yes. If I do, expect enemy levels to scale with yours.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moogle1 wrote:
Baconlabs wrote:
On the second-to-last map (Medium difficulty) I lost my fencer, and he still talked.

What nooooo

This is probably related to a bug I filed, where hero tags aren't getting set/unset correctly. I'll go pester the devs.


Consider me duly pestered :)
I just fixed it.
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Rya.Reisender
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's sad that you think this way, because that basically disables you from making games many people enjoy. *sigh*
Well I already discussed that with you guys, and I basically gave up... it's just that you're making an SRPG, something that I've been waiting for for years now. But guess I can't convince you to make it how games should be: Enjoyable for players and offering the maximum possible customizability. The only reason not to give the player creative control is if it's too hard for the player to understand or too much work for the player to be enjoyable (otherwise the OHRRPGCE itself would be the perfect game).

Quote:
So if you don't damage the enemy, you don't get XP? Shoot, my game's lenient. Sounds like it's not on a 100 XP/Lv scale anyway.

You should have read further. Shining Force has a 100 Exp/LV scale. Effectively damaging an enemy gives around 5-15 exp, killing an enemy gives 30-48 exp and missing gives 1 exp.

Quote:
There are skeletons in 1-4 and 1-5, which look fine to me.

That was my point. Highlighting outlines makes good looking skeletons.

Quote:
Chapter 1 is very linear -- it's essentially a prologue. I haven't entirely decided whether to include random encounters (VP:COTP doesn't, which only adds to the difficulty), but I'm leaning towards yes. If I do, expect enemy levels to scale with yours.

I hope you're only talking about about the levels of the enemies in the random encounters. Because adding the possibility to grind is pointless when you just raise the enemy's level as well.
The main reason to allow grinding is so if a player tried a battle 2-3 times and failed, he'll usually quit the game if it doesn't offer him a possibility to increase his odds somehow. The only reason that talks against it is that it makes the game less skill-dependent, however I think that reason is already nullified if you add the possibility to save in your game (i.e. pure skill-dependence is only something for games without saving aka roguelikes and arcade-likes).
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PURPLE IS MANLY




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rya.Reisender wrote:
Quote:
This isn't Happy Feelgood Land

This is a sentence I have especially problems with. Games should be happy feelgood land for the player, shouldn't they?

[voice="Heavy"]
NO PAIN, NO GAME
THIS IS NO PLACE FOR BABIES

[/voice]


Last edited by Baconlabs on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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