Castle Paradox

Meatballsub · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: Work in progress

Trying to come up with some more ideas for original music of my game. I came up with this today. I'd consider it a first draft, as it is pretty repititious.

Let me know what you guys think, and what it sounds like to you (makings of battle music, overworld, etc....)

http://makersofcornbreadjuice.com/Unknown.mid
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Moogle1 · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject:

Yeah, too repetitious. That one sequence before it loops in particular.

It's got the makings of a fight theme. The harp line needs work, but it's got a solid foundation. Looking forward to the final.
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msw188 · Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1041

Just cut every section in half, or better yet, have the second half actually change the full chord (and probably the melody as well). Its definitely not fun to hear the exact same chord so many times in a row (moving the bass down while keeping the chord the same is neat for a one time thing, but not as the basis for the majority of the song). Just my opinion.
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Artimus Bena · Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject:

The first section is fine length-wise, I would just put in more variation, either in an ABAB fashion, AAAB, AABA. Anything but the main theme repeating four times. Even if you play with alternating the melody's octave. The second section is also ok on length, but more variation would help there too. Perhaps adding other instruments halfway through, to build up the tension, or whatever emotion you want.

When you repeat the first section at the end... well, I probably wouldn't do that, considering it's about to loop back the beginning of the song again anyway. Also, when you loop this song, consider that you have an extra beat before the beginning of the song, so if you send the instruction to loop at the very end of the last measure, the rhythm suffers. Have it loop back right before the very last beat, and smooth out the transition accordingly

This is another style thing, but I'd be adding another part to the song at the end instead of repeating the beginning, something that builds emotion really high, so that it would have a certain effect when going back to the main melody.

My advice overall: add a few more instruments for flavor, and more variation
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Meatballsub · Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the comments. I am working on the second revision as I'm typing this. It should be up within a day or so for critiquing.

EDIT: Meant to say FIRST revision Raspberry!

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Meatballsub · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject:

Two new versions are up. It says it is over a minute long but it is actually only about 30-45 seconds long. Let me know which one is best or I should keep working on.

http://makersofcornbreadjuice.com/BattleV2.mid

http://makersofcornbreadjuice.com/BattleV3.mid
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Calehay · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject:

If you want my two cents:

In both versions, in the opening, when the strings drop out on the chords, it feels like there's a humongous hole in the instrumentation. I would suggest that, if you want it to feel like it's a break in the flow, that maybe you do something "fill" like with the drums, or if you want the entire thing to be continuous, maybe you could create a run in the strings up to the next note. Right now, it just feels like there's a big hole in the middle of it, at least IMO.

In version 2, the whole empty feeling extends into the bulk of the rest of the sections. Version 3 works better since you brought the string chords up an octave, but maybe you could get a bit more creative and make those parts interesting, yet supportive?

I'm not a big fan o f the ostinato harp part. It seems to me if it's going to go on for that long, there should be at least perhaps small subtle changes to give the entire thing some flavor.

I think the only *big* structural thing I might comment on is that you might consider rethinking the chord structure in the first VI-bVII-i-bVII-VI-bVII-i. Since the next part has practically the same thing, you it might help relieve some of the monotony if you found something else. Perhaps if you could find a more interesting way to get back to VI?

Something seems strange about the V back into the beginning. Is someone still playing the tonic? I would suggest against it since the rest of it is so tonally centered. It might be the fault of the ostinato harp tricking us into thinking that we're still playing a i there.

But, other than that, I think this could be the start of a great battle theme.
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Meatballsub · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject:

I changed it up a little more after reading Calehay's post. Consider this the third revision (aka version 4.0)

http://makersofcornbreadjuice.com/BattleV4.mid

Here is version 5.0, with a little different instrument patches and bass line. Let me know which you I should stick with.

http://makersofcornbreadjuice.com/BattleV5.mid
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Moogle1 · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject:

- The harp line has gotten strictly worse since the first version.
- V2 is better than V3.
- V4 is better than V5.
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Meatballsub · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:13 am Post subject:

What are yalls suggestion on the harp line then? Should I take it out completely?

I personally don't have a problem with it, but if the two people mention a problem, then likely there's something not right with it.
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Moogle1 · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:23 am Post subject:

The problem is that it never changes. The harp's arpeggio should at the least change with the chord progression of the rest of the song.

Harps and battle don't exactly go hand-in-hand in my mind, so you may also want to consider a reinstrumentation.
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Meatballsub · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:41 am Post subject:

msw188 · Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1041

I kind of like the harp's entrance during the second 'phrase', but as everyone has been saying since the beginning, it should probably not stay the same the whole time. Do you know much about chords, or music theory? My first suggestion would be to ask yourself what the basic chord is in each measure, and make the harp play precisely the notes that make up the basic chord in each measure. This will probably change the sound of the song a lot. From there start messing with it a little bit measure by measure. Do it in order so you can get a feel for how each measure (chord) transitions to the next. This way you can get it back to how you feel it should sound, but now hopefully the harp-line will be changing a little measure to measure. That's probably how a person with no music theory training (me) would do it.

I personally don't have a problem with the instrument patch.
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My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161

This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew:
www.euphonicbrew.com

Artimus Bena · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:37 am Post subject:

The presence of the harp is fine, so long as that's the feeling you want to go for. As for it not changing much, well, sure you could put some variation in, but you also have to consider that although this song will loop a lot, the player will also be concentrated on winning battles, and not whether the harp part varies.

Overall, I think you've improved it vastly. I like the last version's brass section a lot, although you could try moving it even further out of the note range that it stays in the whole song. If anything gets on someone's nerves eventually, it'll be that. Just to test this, I've listened to this song for 20 minutes straight now.

The drum buildup at the end goes a little fast for any normal person to accomplish. It's a style thing, but I'd cut the amount of drum hits there in half, and probably insert a bass drum hit every other snare hit.

I'd say you could definitely improve it, but it is great as it is. And remember to trust your instincts like a good jedi; don't listen to everything we say.
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Calehay · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:03 am Post subject:

It definitely flows a lot better now without all of those breaks in it.

If you're happy with the harp part, keep it, but the only thing that I would strongly advise would be to let the harp play the V chord at the end with everybody else. When you have tonic playing against the leading tone in something this tonal, it just sounds strange and out of place.

But yes, in the end, the player isn't going to care that the harp isn't changing, they'll worry about beating the battle. But, they will feel, "something isn't right," which is going to distract them instead of making the music just fit. I forget where I heard it from, but a good movie (or game) score is one where the audience doesn't even realize there was music.

The instruments in V4 are better, in my opinion.
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