Castle Paradox

MultiColoredWizard · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:21 pm Post subject:

But dualism DOES suck. The second part is part of what makes the review based on philosophy.

Rinku · Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 690

i did not decrease its score based on that; i was merely warning the reader that there is some objectionable philosophy in there. i would similarly warn the reader if it was a game promoting naziism -- the naziism itself wouldn't make the score of the game lower, but it should at least be mentioned in the review.

also, libel is only when it's done in published writing -- i think a messageboard is more like speech than like writing, but it's borderline since it's so impermanent, so either could probably be used.
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Pepsi Ranger · Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject:

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2221

Rinku · Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 690

for clarity, by dualism i meant definition 2. i think i alluded that that was the way i was using it in the review but i probably could have been clearer.

also, yes, i am saying that altruism is just as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than naziism, and that most harm in the world is done for altruistic reasons. more specifically, naziism is one form of altruism (i.e. altruism is the belief that serving others validates your existance and is your highest purpose, and you can't get much more selfless than a nazi soldier; who were, you remember, trying to save the world by creating a master race. they weren't working for selfish reasons, they wanted to create a master race because they felt it was the right thing to do to help humanity) if you don't want to be warned by that, that's fine, and almost every rpg does have altruism in some form in it, and walthros is no worse than most rpgs in that regard. but i still have the obligation to warn people about objectionable material. that most people don't find it objectionable may be true, but i do and i write from that standpoint.
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The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2221

Setu_Firestorm · Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:16 am Post subject:

I have to admit, with how wrong that game is, there were still some things that had me laughing so hard when I played it. You guys (CN, Giz, and the other guy) are seriously messed up in the worst ways. Ha ha ha!

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Pepsi Ranger · Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject:

Rolling Stone · **Bastard Gunslinger** Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 494

This is proof that Rinku's definition of altruism is different than everyone elses. To him, altruism=self imposed slavery. By my own definition of altruism I'll replace altruistm with the name of an altruist, and naziism with the name of a nazi.

If Rinku meant my definition of altruism he'd be saying this:

Mister Rogers is just as bad, if not worse than Hitler.

I've learned that what most people regard as sane altruism, he justifies as an aspect of capitalism. So you're not saving someone from a burning building because they don't want to burn to death, but because you don't want them to burn to death because their life has value to you.

What I've learned from studying philosophy is that all sensible philosophy comes down to the exact same end result. Any act of altruism can be turned around and seen as a form of capitalism. So the nazis altruistically wanted to grant a master race to the world/So the nazis wanted to selfishly rid the world of people they didn't like. I gave my last cookie to my sister because she wanted it more than I did/I gave my last cookie to my sister because her health and happiness makes my envornoment more peaceful. Jesus died for our sins/Jesus died because he valued our eternal lives more than his own mortal life.

I used to think capitalism meant that you would unflinchingly murder your mother for a dime. Rinku thinks altruism means you'd unflinchingly murder her to give someone else a dime. If you got rid of all the words associated with philosophy, I doubt there'd be much arguing over it.
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Durandal · Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject:

I have seen some stupid shit, but Jesus, this takes the cake. I had to reread that paragraph a few times for the message "Selflessness is like Nazis" to sink in.

Do you ACTUALLY believe giving a hobo a few dollars is the same level (or even worse) as gassing jews?

Me · Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:10 pm Post subject:

I think what Rinku means is that FORCED altruism and EXTREME altruism are bad. As he said, he disagrees with wefare, as it forces one to be altruistic, but charities are fine, as they are based in one's voluntary altruism. So giving a few dollars to a bum is not evil, while someone forcing you to give the bum a new car IS evil.
At least, that's how I've understood it.
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Rinku · Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 690

"Last I checked, heroism was designed to "save the world" through elitism. If I'm wrong, then correct me, but I seem to recall the words "saving the world" being in the mission statement somewhere. "

yes, i'll have to correct you. neither of those things are true.

also, gil, how is mr. rogers an altruist? he's one of the most selfish people i've ever seen, i used to watch his show religiously when i was 7 or so. trying to help children by giving them quality television which improves their minds, what could be more selfish?
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Durandal · Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:06 am Post subject:

MultiColoredWizard · Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:35 am Post subject:

No, Rinku has a different definition of selfish. Selfish, to him, I believe is along the lines of taking only things you need. But... er.. I don't see how that relates right now.