Decision 08!

LeRoy_Leo · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject:

Uncommon, don't you listen to the news? Or do you just get everything from the internet?
Obama SAID IT to a guy that's now pretty famous who they call Joe the plumber. Joe asked, and I'm paraphrasing here, "I'm about to buy into a small business and I'll technically own the business and be making over 250,000 dollars a year. Will your plan tax me more?"
Obama coolly answered, paraphrased, "Yes. Don't you think it would be a good idea to spread the wealth around?"

http://shawnleroy.deviantart.com/journal/21163933/

Therein lay the proof of my former commentary. Let me know if you want more.
One last thing; how do you guys know that YOU aren't the victims of spin? Hm? You cannot say you haven't been had. There's no way to be 100% sure unless you were physically YOURSELVES in the presence of both of these people and they didn't know you were there and they acted normally. Naturally this means I too cannot say that I haven't been had. We're equals in this argument.
I don't expect this to change anyone's opinion. I say embrace your own opinion. I'm done fighting as of now.

PS: May Obama's dear grandmother have a swift recovery.
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---msw188 ---
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Artimus Bena · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:18 am Post subject:

I have read this whole thing.

In my opinion, choosing Palin voids any experience-related argument McCain has, because, in my opinion, Palin is "stunningly, and embarassingly full of shit" (unrelated Carlin quote). Anyone as experienced as McCain should have picked someone who could at least best Biden. Unfortunately, when I watched Biden and Palin debate, what I saw was Palin acting like she was in a high school debate (determined to "win" through a 'strong' offense) and Biden retorting with facts and mature, experience-tested observations. This view is by no means sexist. I'd have voted Hillary in, if it weren't for all the name calling and somewhat shameful political tactics she used against Obama. Which incites an interesting comparison for me: both palin and clinton were all about the tactics. Hillary was cut-throat, Palin plays the hockey-mom. Fucking stereotypes, proven 'game-winners'. I have watched enough interviews with mccain and palin to be absolutely sick of the bullshit.

Obama on the other hand, to me anyway, actually makes sense when he speaks. And he picks a running mate who will provide opposing ideas--what's more impressive than that? Certainly not choosing a "regular hockey mom" as she calls herself.

Regular hockey moms are good at being regular hockey moms. Not vice. fucking. president. And then of course, when it's convenient, she sheds the hockey mom image and dons the strong, experienced woman suit, though despite the switch she still fumbles at every question she is asked.

I mean think about it, even with the most complex questions, someone who has a solid stance on anything will find it quite easy to talk on and on about the subject. To me, a humble person in her situation would have respectfully declined the offer to be running mate. Someone so inexperienced would have had enough respect for the position offered they would doubt they have what it takes. Obama could quite possibly be put in that same description, but we're faced with a 'one or the other' decision now, and I'm inclined to choose the person who seems to employ common sense and reason, rather than a man who points fingers at "elitists" and at the same time picks a running mate who condemns 'labeling people' (the same person who labels herself a maverick and hockey mom).

I think I'm done rambling, but I'm sure I will think of more to say later. Always do.
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Artimus Bena · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:33 am Post subject:

Thought I should elaborate on some things I mentioned:

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2221

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

Insanity leads to action, insane action. That never ever implies quality action. Goddamn Leroy, you suck. No wonder you support Palin/Mccain.

Camdog · Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 606

LeRoy, I... good lord, I don't even know where to begin. You said you get your information from both sides, but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE ARTICLES YOU LINKED are from Townhall.com, one of the most reactionary, far-right sites that exist on the net. They say themselves they only want to present one side of the argument. "Townhall.com is designed to amplify conservative voices in Americaâ€™s political debates just as the 2006 and 2008 election cycles begin to heat up." That's straight from their site!

Further, all of the articles you linked to are op-ed pieces, none of which offer any citations to back up what their saying. This means the authors get to cherry-pick and spin the facts in whatever way they choose, all to further their already plainly stated goal of amplifying the conservative argument. This means that there is no way to tell if the columnists are being misleading, or even outright lying, when they say what they say.

For example, in the column you linked entitled, 'Obamanomics Abhors the Free Market', David Limbaugh writes, "But it is an objective fact that Bush gave greater percentage cuts to lower-income earners than to the wealthy." This is absolutely untrue. It is refuted by a study from the Congressional Budget Office, a non-partisan group. There's no way of verifying what Limbaugh writes without seeking out information from other sources, of course. That's why it's so important that you read (and reference) stuff outside of op-ed pieces from unapologetically partisan sources.

Let's talk about Orson Scott Card for a moment. First off, he is in no way a real journalist. He is a fiction author. I'd say he's a great fiction author (I love him, have at least 15 of his books.) That doesn't make him a journalist. I actually know quite a bit about Card. I live in his hometown, where he writes a weekly column for a local (right-leaning) paper, and I read it regularly. Let me say that Orson Scott Card is a democrat in the way Zell Miller is a democrat. He publically supported George W. Bush for election (and, of course, McCain), as well as Republicans running for local offices, and has said that the Republican party philosophy is more in line with his own than the Democrats. He remains affiliated with that party for historical reasons only, so you can't claim him as someone from the other side agreeing with you. He's just as right-wing partisan as David Limbaugh.

I know I said this before, but please, please look outside your bubble for political information. Your one-sided news sources are unhealthy, and your becoming part of an echo-chamber, a ditto-head. The people whose articles you linked to think people who disagree with them are idiots, and that their beliefs are obviously right. This phenomenon certainly isn't limited to the right, and it would've been just as bad if every article you linked to came from dailykos.com. Partisan bullshit will never give you the full story, no matter who it's coming from. Try to expand your world-view before dismissing so many other viewpoints.

LeRoy_Leo · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:32 am Post subject:

It doesn't matter what side you get your facts from. The very fact that you SEARCHED FOR THEM tells ME that you are intelligent. Bravo.
Now, this means I too am intelligent. I seek the truth. It doesn't matter what dirt you dig up on the Republican party, because there is far more wrong with the democratic party at the moment. They just aren't the same democratic party we used to know and love.

Now let me clarify for PHC. When I say insanity causes action, I mean any action. To act is to be insane. If you are sane, you do not act. You are conservative and hold back. There are two types of insane; the helpful type that we call "thinking outside the box" and the bad type that we usually think of when we hear the word insane. I am not suggesting a serial killer is a good person.
Also being an eloquent speaker is a good thing... unless you are using that talent to evil gains. Hitler used his "charisma" to create fear and hatred and tried to rule the world. Obama, I believe, is using it to fool us into letting the liberals control 100% of our country.

Oh yeah, did anyone even think about that? Democrats CANNOT control every sector of government. If Obama wins, THEY WILL. This alone should deter people from choosing him. But who am I to be logical. I'm insane, right?

Oh, and before I forget again; Obama has historical spending habits. HE WILL SPEND A LOT OF YOUR MONEY. Spending is definitely not the answer. Yeah yeah, he'll cut the taxes for us, the little people, but he'll still put our country in more debt. I know this for a fact because I've been studying his actions. He's a big spender...

Also, just a hint to the people working on the O man's campaign, and I know they won't get this because it's here. If I could give them a couple tips, here they are: First of all, stop spending so much on anti McCain commercials. That just makes you look like big spenders and kills your argument about how McCain is attacking you guys a lot, because you are attacking him even worse. Next, stop blaming Bush for everything. I know for a fact that he merely presided over hard times, but the wheels started turning in the Clinton years, so really it's Bill's and Hilary's fault. I'm not going to back that up, because you're all intelligent enough to find out for yourselves.

AS I SAID ABOVE. This argument is over. You've all made very good points and neither of our sides is changing our minds. I'll reiterate for the LAST TIME. "We shall see"... No more fighting. It's a stale mate.
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Planning Project Blood Summons, an MMORPG which will incinerate all of the others with it's sheer brilliance...

---msw188 ---
"Seriously James, you keep rolling out the awesome like gingerbread men on a horror-movie assembly line. "

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

Again, Leroy, back up all that crazy you just mouthed. You keep failing to address that either you have no sources, or your sources are extremely biased. It isn't hard to google the bad things about the opposition and find a bunch of information.

I could google "Men are better than women" and get a bunch of facts. However, if I did a search on Women are better than men, I still get millions of results. One sided research is very flawed and narrow minded. Time to EXPAND YOUR OWN MIND LEROY.

LeRoy_Leo · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:47 am Post subject:

I've done that, Longebane.
What I found made absolutely no sense.
I guess you can say I just relate better to the other side.

AS I SAID ABOVE. This argument is over. You've all made very good points and neither of our sides is changing our minds. I'll reiterate for the LAST TIME. "We shall see"... No more fighting. It's a stale mate.
_________________
Planning Project Blood Summons, an MMORPG which will incinerate all of the others with it's sheer brilliance...

---msw188 ---
"Seriously James, you keep rolling out the awesome like gingerbread men on a horror-movie assembly line. "

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

Uh...It's not a stalemate. I think you're forgetting the real winner here is battleblaze. For being old enough to vote now. America needs to hear his humble opinions.

Camdog · Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 606

LeRoy_Leo · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:34 am Post subject:

Like I said, you have found some interesting articles and I will consider them. The mature thing to do now is to agree to disagree and watch the show.
_________________
Planning Project Blood Summons, an MMORPG which will incinerate all of the others with it's sheer brilliance...

---msw188 ---
"Seriously James, you keep rolling out the awesome like gingerbread men on a horror-movie assembly line. "

Onlyoneinall · **Bug finder** Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 746

Leroy you are such a fucking idiot that it's amazing that you haven't ceased to exist. Maybe we'll all get lucky and you'll stop posting forever because you died or something.
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LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

I'm pretty sure Leroy just threw in the towel.