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Elements Suck Like.... Wo!
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Eggie




Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 904

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:00 pm    Post subject: Elements Suck Like.... Wo! Reply with quote

You know the classic element stuff in Final Fantasys?

Fire-Ice-Bolt-Earth-Wind-Water-Poison-Holy

Well, I was thinking, maybe I could mess it up a bit...

Heat-Cold-Bolt-Nature-Matrix-Lunar-Matter-Holy

Matrix represents weird specials, like 100110 and No, no, no..._-. It kind of goes with the computer type ways.

Lunar represents space attacks, and basically furry attacks.

Nature is basicallt Earth.

Now, let's get a little bit... naughty.

Musical Elements!

Hip-Hop (Being Holy), Rap (Being Moderately Holy), Punk (Being Moderately Evil), and Death Metal (Being Evil). Get it? Punk, Metal, and Rock 'n' Roll are evil, while Hip-Hop, Rap, and Pop are Holy. Soft Rock and Pop are neutral.

I really like the Music elements, or Muzik elements (Spicen up the literature.). It's a break from the regular elements, plus it fits my upcoming release of Supernaturalstikkhiphopmuzik! , which is better than Urban Fantasy.
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Iblis
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Joined: 26 May 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say I admired the effort, if it looked like you put any effort into this.

Quote:
Heat-Cold-Bolt-Nature-Matrix-Lunar-Matter-Holy


OMFG it is so different from normal.

The only reason you would name it "Matrix" instead of "Binary" is because you're trying to leech off the popularity of others. And "Matter?" What kind of matter? That's nearly the most vague thing you could possibly say.

Quote:
Muzik elements (Spicen up the literature.).


Misspellings spice up nothing.
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JSH357




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize that you're just taking the exact same system and changing
names around- not being original- right?

Final Fantasy's Element system is ok. It would be a lot cooler if
every element affected every other element in a totally different
way, though.

So instead of:
X > Y > U > P > L > X D <--> H

It would be:


>P->X __
| / \ \
\-Z - Y<-F

.. Or something like that.

In that example, X-Y-Z are neutral to one another, F beats Y and is
neutral with X, Z beats P, and P beats X.

Obviously, that's unbalanced. I made it under a minute though.

Here's an example from the game I'm working on now:
(The V is a down arrow)

v----------\
S -> A -> L/
^ | C
|---\v >H<-G
P--------->D-----/

I'll explain it.

S beats A. A beats L and D. L beats S. P beats D.
D beats H and S. G beats H. C is neutral to all, and any two
elements not connected are neutral.

It seems like a crazy system if you have Final Fantasy shoved down
your throat, but it's actually fairly interesting.


.. Okay, that was probably unecessary. :p

Edit: Rrgh, fricking spacing errors. Live with it.
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Uncommon
His legend will never die




Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 2503

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggie... Don't mess with Rock. It's so much better than your sucky rap and hip-hop (soft rock and pop are neutral?! ugh...).

Seriosuly, though, in Magnus 17, I had different system. Steel, Gravity, Nature, Mental, Stone, Poison, Shadow, and Light. Not all of them are so original/revolutionary, but hey, I tried. At least I didn't just do the same thing with a different name...
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Me
HI.




Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 870
Location: MY CUSTOM TITLE CAME BACK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been thinking about using Earth, Heaven, Light, and Dark as my elementals (the other four the OHR gives me are for extra gimmicks). Heaven and Earth oppose each other, as do Light and Dark. This is based sort of on the D&D two-axis alignment system, where something can be earth and light, like a forest, or earth and dark, like a swamp, or heavenly dark, or earthly neutral, or heavenly light . . . you get the picture. Since everything is an elemental of some sort, you should be able to use the bitsets at all times. Plus, I plan on incorporating the standard earth-air-fire-water thing as well, just in a more subtle way (mainly with stat bonuses when in certain areas).
One thing I just thought of: in the FFs, the "Bomb" enemies are always healed by fire. Why is that? A BOMB would EXPLODE if hit by fire.
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Setu_Firestorm
Music Composer




Joined: 26 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Elements Suck Like.... Wo! Reply with quote

Eggie wrote:

Musical Elements!

Hip-Hop (Being Holy), Rap (Being Moderately Holy), Punk (Being Moderately Evil), and Death Metal (Being Evil). Get it? Punk, Metal, and Rock 'n' Roll are evil, while Hip-Hop, Rap, and Pop are Holy. Soft Rock and Pop are neutral.


Musical elements is an interesting idea, but I would never consider hip-hop and rap holy. Raspberry!
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Shadowiii
It's been real.




Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop only has two elements: White and Shadow. Considering there aren't really set elements anyway (besides the peroidic table), the effect was to better represent Good and Evil (Stop has many underlying religious themes). However, the Good and Evil idea can also be swapped, because there is no pure evil (save Satan) no pure good (save Christ). Since nothing in Stop is pure of any of these elements, there will be good Shadow-born and evil White.

But, yeah, I hate the elements. Considering 99% of the time it is a "Paper, Scissors, Rock" system, it is best to just drop it all together.
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xaero
me




Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rap? Holy?
How the hell is "F*ck nigger bro, f*uck people, and i got raped by my daddy" holy?
Rap is not close to holy to is full of unesesscary swearing,
and rock probably would be unholy but it still would kick rap's puny ass any day!
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Last edited by xaero on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Me
HI.




Joined: 30 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How on earth did this become a debate on whether or not rap is holy? Honestly, people, everyone is entitled to their opinions on music, and it's rather impolite to tell them they suck because you don't like that genre. I don't like most rap myself, but I'm not going to yell at Eggie for it. Christ.
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Catfish
That P*ssed Off N00b




Joined: 05 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:18 pm    Post subject: Xaero Chill Reply with quote

Quote:
How the hell is "F*ck nigger bro, f*uck people, and i got raped by my daddy" holy?


Chill

Quote:
nd rock probably would be unholy but it still would kick rap's puny ass any day!


In my opinion I think rap would kick rocks "puny ass". I am a big rock fan but in a game, rap would be stronger.
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Iblis
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Joined: 26 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But, yeah, I hate the elements. Considering 99% of the time it is a "Paper, Scissors, Rock" system, it is best to just drop it all together.


Actually it's often much worse than that. At least Paper/Rock/Scissors is three way. The most common elemental system I've seen is just sets of dualities like Fire/Water, Wind/Earth, and Light/Dark.
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JSH357




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, intransic relationships like rock-paper-scissors are
brilliant. The only problem is that when you add a fourth element
you have have to make sure that all relationships are accounted for.

Otherwise, you'll have way too many elements that are neutral to one
another, which is bad. It's ok to have standoffs, but not for every
relationship besides the weakness/strength.

RPS is like this:
1->2->3->1
Three relationships

And if you have four elements, it needs to be like this:

1->2->3->4->1
1?-?3
2?-?4
Six relationships

When you add a fifth element, it starts getting a lot more complex.
(Ten relationship.)


The formula to get the number of relationships in an intransic web is:
x = number of elements.
(x-1) + (x-2) + (x-3) ... until you get to 0.
In case you cared.


And that's not all! You can also have an element relate to itSELF.
(If you do that, then you can just add x to the above equation.)

Now, if you use all eight elements available with the OHRRPGCE, that's
28 or 36 relationships.
(That's excluding enemy types, which actually change things a lot...)

Most people are too lazy to design a system with that many
relationships. It's not to say that x>y>z>u>i>o>p>x i<>l has no merit,
it's just so overdone.
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T-Master




Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The only reason you would name it "Matrix" instead of "Binary"


He probably doesn't know what binary is. Anyways, I don't like a distinction between ice and water in my elements, as- GUESS WHAT? THEY ARE THE SAME? I also don't like Earth as an element type. It seems kind of broad in scope, as compared to something like Fire. I don't like any element couner system. I think it should be tailored to the enemy. For example, plant type enemies might be weak to both Fire and Ice, or just Fire, depending on their locale, and possibly to varying degrees.

If you want a neat element set you could do something based on materials, like: Wood, Iron, Gold, Silver, Stone, etc. Each enemy would be weak to different types of materials. I'm sure this has been done before but not quite sure where.
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DemocraticAnarchist
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Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If elements are used properly, they are interesting. But if just used as in Final Fantasy, they are slightly useless and maybe unnessecary. And changing their names isnt re-inventing the wheel, ith the same system.

Oh, and eggie, would you so awfully mind changing your avatar? It should be a representation of some part of you/your personality, but shouldnt be used to voice idiotic baseless opinions.

Sorry, off topic ^_^
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Iblis
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Joined: 26 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, and eggie, would you so awfully mind changing your avatar? It should be a representation of some part of you/your personality, but shouldnt be used to voice idiotic baseless opinions.


An avatar can be whatever someone wants, as long as it's not porn or something else against the rules. Are you so weak that you can't accept that he might like a different kind of music than you do? Grow up. Your comments are as pointless as they are stupid.
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