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Castle Paradox
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KainMinter
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Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 155
Location: Austin
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 Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Any tips for beating the 6 hero clones?
My setup:
Paladin
Warrior
Ninja
Witch
Heres how the fight always goes:
-I get menus first before anything happens.
-I select Safe2 Haste2 Blink and Slow2
-Before anybody can do anything in my party the 6 enemy take their turns.
-My paladin is all alone. He attempts to use Life potion on a character.
-I'm at the title screen.
This battle is hawt. |
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, BB, that attack is Safe2.
For the Clone Warriors, if you have a Ninja, open with Ultima. Paladin should use Big Guard, Berserker should pick one off with Crit2, and Witch should use Stun2.
Actually, Stun2 is all you need.
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LeRoy_Leo
Project manager
Class S Minstrel
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Posts: 2683
Location: The dead-center of your brain!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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A) Yeah you did... Indirectly, man.
B) No. I got tired of it.
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Your loss.
But feel free to explain to me why if you didn't like a game full of interesting battles anyone should be expected to like games full of uninteresting battles (see: almost every other OHR game).
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Shaede
Tuck in your shirt.
Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But feel free to explain to me why if you didn't like a game full of interesting battles anyone should be expected to like games full of uninteresting battles (see: almost every other OHR game). |
It has a steep learning curve with all the classes and abilities. That alone could turn a lot of people away from it.
Me? I played around with it for a while, but I did the same thing as Kain in the end, causing the OHR to take a core dump fighting the ball things.  |
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KainMinter
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Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 155
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Moogle1 wrote: | Your loss.
But feel free to explain to me why if you didn't like a game full of interesting battles anyone should be expected to like games full of uninteresting battles (see: almost every other OHR game). |
The game becomes rather difficult very quickly. Also, there is more to liking an RPG than it having strategic battles. In your games case, that is the highlight of the feature. Other games may still be likable for other reasons. Story, graphics, music, minigames, character ability development, etc can all play a factor in the players enjoyment. Take FF6 for example, that was a hold down A button to win RPG if I ever saw one. How many people still claim it to be their favorite?
Anyhow, I personally am enjoying your game. The battles for the most part are fun, strategic, and challenging. Though the strategy and challenge in battles is enjoyable to some, I can see how it could turn others away who might be looking for more of a laid back less difficult game.
There was a lot I liked about this game, but there were also some things I found disappointing. The biggest issue I have with it is that it was much more linear than I expected. From seeing the battle statistics text boxes, I figured there would be a lot more options of battles you could try at once. (Kind of like megaman games' stage select style, but in RPG format) Maybe the game does take that turn, but I can't tell yet because I get instakilled by the clone battle before I can procede. Also, the dungeon's tileset/design kind monotone(The endless sea of red bricks and dirt floors.) The ability to retry previously beaten battles would be another plus. Also, I can tell you put a lot of effort into the creation and balancing of your battles and the character select screen, but i feel the dungeons apperance is slightly less than your usual quality. Less vibrant bricks, or some edging or props might have helped.
Still, very impressive and inovative use of the ohr battle system in this one. That worm battle's design impressed me very much. <3 the fact that you are completely recovered after every battle too. It's fun to be able to go all out on every battle. Gives you a sense of your characters having power behind them, yet the game is not broken or easy. I'd recomend anyone to play this one through at least once. :) |
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that the graphics are subpar, but you have to take into account that the game is a Human Day contest entry: it was made in eleven days.
Shaede, you do have a point with the learning curve. I attempted to make the abilities self-explanatory -- anyone should know what Safe or Regen does, for example -- but a player is likely to start with 36 abilities.
Even so, the next RPG I make will probably follow this same format, more or less: few or no random encounters, highly scripted battles, highly typified characters. It'll probably use more RPG conventions, like experience and ability growth. It'll definitely be longer and have a gentler learning curve. But it will also encourage strategy in battle.
It'll be pure-programmed, too, by the way. As much as I like the OHRRPGCE, Darkmoor has stretched its battle engine to the limits without doing half of what I'd like to do in an RPG.
Kain, FF6 is in large part a hold-down-the-button RPG. Good point. Even so, if your game isn't fun when you strip it down to the gameplay, you might as well have just written a book.
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Shaede
Tuck in your shirt.
Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kain, FF6 is in large part a hold-down-the-button RPG. Good point. Even so, if your game isn't fun when you strip it down to the gameplay, you might as well have just written a book. |
I'd like to go on a bit of a tangent about this:
The original video game RPG was designed with the idea that "If you can't overcome it now, you can get more powerful and overcome it later." Meaning that stradegy in battle did have a place, but the main focus was on stat building and leveling. This was Dragon Quest (or Warrior) I.
Final Fantasy 1 used a simular idea, but severely limited the stat building potential, giving more focus on stradegy. You can beat the game before level 20, I believe. Nonetheless, the average person attains a much higher level (usually through running in circles and hitting "attack").
Stradegy is great, but it's only a single aspect of the overall game. In World of Warcraft and other MMOs, the leveling and stat building process is extremely slow and often very limited. But do you spend most of the time dealing with unique stradegies? No. You spend most of the time doing very repetitive activities, such as hitting the "attack" button or healing a group.
In FFG, many of the random enemy encounters will be destroyable simply by attacking. There will be some that pose more threat, indeed, but they bog down the game and are used in moderation. If every random enemy encounter was like a boss battle, people would be burnt out really fast.
My point is that stradegy is a great thing to have in your game, but there needs to be breaks where the gameplay isn't too stressful. FF7 is often times deemed the best Final Fantasy, and it's no doubt the easiest one. You can't define the greatness of a game simply by it's uniqueness or difficulty. |
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LeRoy_Leo
Project manager
Class S Minstrel
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Posts: 2683
Location: The dead-center of your brain!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, they pretty much explained it for me. I loved the concepts of the battles, but I was playing on a limit of time, which was the biggest reason I stopped. This is impressive for an eleven day made game. What I thought was sort of funny was that you had to defeat all of the battle orbs to advance, yet they were not challenging to find.
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Planning Project Blood Summons, an MMORPG which will incinerate all of the others with it's sheer brilliance...
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"Seriously James, you keep rolling out the awesome like gingerbread men on a horror-movie assembly line. " |
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Iblis
Ghost Cat
Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1233
Location: Your brain
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But feel free to explain to me why if you didn't like a game full of interesting battles anyone should be expected to like games full of uninteresting battles (see: almost every other OHR game). |
I can really see how someone could get discouraged by the earlier battles. Most of the first floor is just "use your most powerful attack until they die." The Aegises are kind of different from this, but only in that you have to kill them as fast as possible so they don't get too strong. But you're probably trying to kill the other enemies as fast as possible too, so that's probably not much of a difference. The battles get better later on, but the first floor is mostly really easy and simple (I dunno why they're saying the clone battle was so hard, that was just another "kill them with ultima" battle for me).
| Quote: | | if your game isn't fun when you strip it down to the gameplay, you might as well have just written a book. |
I disagree with this on the grounds that a story as experienced in a book is totally different from the story-graphics-music-gameplay combination experienced in a game. You could surely take the story out of a game and put it into a book, but it would be absolutely nothing like the original product at all.
| Quote: | | In World of Warcraft and other MMOs, the leveling and stat building process is extremely slow and often very limited. But do you spend most of the time dealing with unique stradegies? No. You spend most of the time doing very repetitive activities, such as hitting the "attack" button or healing a group. |
So what? We already know that strategy-free gameplay is very common, but that doesn't matter. Being common doesn't make it good.
EDIT: Regarding the last point, I don't mean to say that gameplay has to have strategy to be good. Rather my point was that Shaede only spoke of this repetition-based gameplay system as being common, without any arguments as for why it was good.
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Last edited by Iblis on Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rimudora
Psychopath yandere
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, to all of you complaining about the Aegises:
I'm pretty sure the Witch's "Dispel" resets their Def/MagDef |
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Iblis wrote: | | Quote: | | if your game isn't fun when you strip it down to the gameplay, you might as well have just written a book. |
I disagree with this on the grounds that a story as experienced in a book is totally different from the story-graphics-music-gameplay combination experienced in a game. You could surely take the story out of a game and put it into a book, but it would be absolutely nothing like the original product at all. |
Okay, yeah. I guess the point is if you're making a game, you've got a choice between in-depth gameplay and shallow gameplay, where shallow gameplay is really a copout. The battles don't have to be difficult to be strategic (3rd floor's Necrolyte, for example, is really easy if you know what you're doing); conversely, difficult battles aren't necessarily strategic (FF1's Chaos has a heavy luck factor).
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KainMinter
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Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 155
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Rimudora wrote: | Okay, to all of you complaining about the Aegises:
I'm pretty sure the Witch's "Dispel" resets their Def/MagDef |
Not complaining X)
But if you don't have a witch or if you mess up and run out of MP for dispel, OHR is doomed to crash. They are not that hard though. (Except the magic only one. With a party of 3 melees and one witch on my side, this guy was a doozie. Poison2 + holding the esc key for the slow but sure win. XD |
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Shaede
Tuck in your shirt.
Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So what? We already know that strategy-free gameplay is very common, but that doesn't matter. Being common doesn't make it good. |
Not alone, but it's a good indication. I'm not saying that completely repetitive gameplay is good, not all all. I'm merely pointing out that the most successful and liked games are not always the most challenging or complicated (as said in my examples of FF7 and World of Warcraft, which have both made an enormous amount of money with a huge fanbase). |
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Mike Caron
Technomancer
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 889
Location: Why do you keep asking?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| KainMinter wrote: | | Rimudora wrote: | Okay, to all of you complaining about the Aegises:
I'm pretty sure the Witch's "Dispel" resets their Def/MagDef |
Not complaining X)
But if you don't have a witch or if you mess up and run out of MP for dispel, OHR is doomed to crash. |
Ok, the next thing I work on will be fixing that.
Incidentally, Moogle1, Darkmoor did stretch the OHR battle system to the limits. But, mix some tags in for the next version, and you've only scratched the surface...
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