Castle Paradox

[Grandtrain]

I don't think puzzles are neccessary for an ideal dungeon. I think it's more important for a dungeon to have more than a straight line from beginning to end. I like Zelda, Metroid, and Resident Evil because the dungeons often require the person to return to previous positions and search for new ways.

[jabbercat]

Move over feeble mortals! Let jabbercat, high priest of Wee Jas speak !

ok history time!:

In 1973 a man named Gary Gyrax made a game where 4-10 dudes sit around a paper map and roll dice, thats right the beutifull game : dungeons&dragons ! history lesson over.

the ideal dungeon was everything nasty ever in it.trap that posion,bolders that crush , gods that get angry , that is what a dungeon is 1

a list of monsters will comence:
mud-clay-stone-iron golems
red-black-green dragons
beholders
dark evles
mind flayers
goblins-orks
gelatinus cubes
ogres
fell beasts
ect.
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Moogle no longer owes prizes.

[Friend]

What makes a good dungeon? I believe it's the atmosphere. You don't want the players to feel that they're just playing another dungeon with different tilemaps... unfortunately, alot of OHR dungeons are like this. They lack personality... or something to that effect.

I like SH's approach to creating "dungeons." The puzzles are simple, but not overly simplistic like RE's. There's a focus on exploration too. Most of the time it just involves finding the right key to open the right door. Sounds mundane? maybe, but the designer has included a variety of puzzles to make this method of exploration feels less like a dungeon-fest. Also almost as important is the use of pacing in the game... By pacing I mean long walks in the hallways, often with no enemies at all. This may sound dull to you, but Konami did it gracefully... I can feel the tension building even if all I'm doing is just... exploring. They also know TIMING, and by that, I mean well-placed crashing sound... unsuspecting screams, or whatever during the long walks.

Friend,
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"I am Collins. From my position in the moon's orbit, I watched Armstrong and Aldrin land and walk on the surface. I was so close to the ground of the moon, and yet I returned without having trod upon it... I am Collins." -Friend

[Komera]

To Fenrir-Lunaris:
Well, thanks for the FF history and possibly spoiling future FF games (Possibly, but not probably, because most of us are so used to how Square-Enix thinks that it's been a long time since a FF game surprised us. At least in my case, I haven't been surprised since FF6... seeing Kefka chuck Ghestal off the floating continent. I was used to villans taking out heros, but not villans taking out villans).

BTW- you forgot to include the "ESCAPE FROM PRISON/SELF DESTRUCTING BUILDING" dungeon, though not manditory... is highly used.
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LJ.Art

SD - Ten creatures remaining.

[Aethereal]

A good dungeon is a dungeon that isn't boring. Unfortunately, about 75% of dungeons out there are. That is why Lufia II is currently my favorite RPG, and has been since 1996. It is also why I think that as long as a dungeon isn't boring, it's good, because there aren't many that are good. Most are just long stretches of cave/road/whatever that have no sort of interaction with the player sans random battles.

[Shadowiii]

Fenrir-Lunaris - Thanks for a good laugh...even though the laugh kinda hurt...

Its actually kinda sad that the "ideal" dungeon/story layout is based on Final Fantasy...and taht they haven't changed it since basically Final Fantasy 4. Eh.

Ideal dungeon? Hmmm...I dunno. I always liked dungeons that were natural (like trees, etc)...even though those rarely show up...

I also like dungeons that are ACTUALLY DUNGEONS (think of chrono trigger ). Such a generic name for such a wide variety of...dungeons.
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But enough talk, have at you!

[RPGCreations]

Fenrir wins for most OHR and Nintendo references ever.
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[*Worthy*]

I agree with Friend. Atmosphere plays a huge role in determining the enjoyment of a dungeon. The player doesn't want to feel as if she/he is moving the character around on a map full of tiles. There should be somewhat of a feeling of reality in the dungeon. A dungeon should be something that could possibly exist in a fantasy world.

A dungeon with a massive amount of dead-ends and single color floors and walls would not be a realistic dungeon. A cave with water leaking from some ceiling tiles, rocks lying on the ground, maybe even some sort of critters crawling about, or other various things allow the player to be more absorbed in the game.

The battles should also be interesting. Fighting the same formation, using the same battle strategy throughout the dungeon can get really boring after a while, especially when battles are every few steps.

In the game I'm working on now I am going to make it possible for the player to actually turn off the battles in some dungeons. Obviously they will not get very far without the experience and battle points received from battles, so why force the battles upon the player? When I play games, I know sometimes I want to focus on solving the puzzle in the dungeon without any interruptions. I am sure others feel the same way.

~Worthy
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You can do whatever you want...but prison is full of people who make bad decisions.

[Eggie]

If you want something cool in you could put a secret path or something like that. It'd spice it up a tiny bit.

[Mr B]

Secret path...secret path...

Like in FFV (which I never finished, per usual), the first shrine, the shrine of the wind crystal, had a secret passage, which was viewable by thieves, but you can't have learned any thief skills yet, so the secret passage was...truly secret.

For some reason, I was amused when I first discovered it.

[Shadowiii]

Mr. B revived a dead thread! Now he must be PUNISHED!

Hehe, just kidding.
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But enough talk, have at you!

[Minnek]

Get the rack! :flamedevil:
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* SDHawk has joined #Minnek
SDHawk> AAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUGH
* SDHawk has left #Minnek (Leaving)

[MultiColoredWizard]

DER THREAD E NO UNDONE?!?

[Mr B]

DEAD!??!! THIS THREAD IS DEAD!!!?!?!?!

HOW DARE...YOU...er...

*gingerly toes thread with steel-toed boot*

!?!?!?

!!!!

GET IT OFF GET IT OFFFFFfffff........

[eldritch]

My ideal dungeon would be relatively long, actually.

Such a dungeon, per se, would have to rotate around a theme realistically with challenges that are beyond mere 'I wonder where the switch is" puzzles.

As everything with rpgs, my 'ideal dungeon' would have to contribute greatly to storyline or the 'feel' of the world.

Continuing with a statement below, a dungeon as well as the entire game should have a feel of reality and should not break said reality. Lord help the next person I find who places a 'smurf hat' in a dungeon when smurfs don't exist in their world.

Thus a dungeon must be consistent with the developers version of reality. No techno-lifts in medieval times without proper explanation, etc...


However, I find that the best dungeons are not dungeons as we think of them in a classical sense, but something akin to a town under siege and such. For example, South Figaro in FF6.

Another must for an interesting dungeon is something to do with character or player interaction. The remains of lost scrolls, a local recipe, maybe an old hermit who lives in it. Some quirk or hook to make the player want to continue travelling into the dungeon, etc...

Traps are also a must, if appropriate. There is nothing more gratifying than figuring something out and discovering that one's actions may not have been necessary, but prevented one from being incredibly inconvenienced
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"Live by the dice, die by the dice."

"I'd tell you but then I'd turn into a badger."

"Semper Fideles means 'we eat our dead.'"
-Anonymous marine