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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
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Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is Awesome.

The Third-Party HSI has trig functions in it, but I suppose it's a little late to point this out.
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TMC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, bravo! Can't wait to see him walk :) I've been waiting for someone other than James to start some real experimenting with slices.

Quote:
(Although I cheated on the rotation's trig functions. Taylor expansions of SIN and COS basically don't work with integer-only math. I cheated, and printed out SWITCH statement lookup tables using MATLAB)


When I tried using a Taylor series approximation to compute sin using 16 bit integers I admit that it turned out very badly (having to multiply 7 bit integers together: yuck!), but I expect that you could do a good job using 32 bit integers.

Warning: switch doesn't do a table lookup like it would in C; it tests each case one by one (I'll probably change this in the new interpreter) so the nested ifs used in the 3rd Party HSI scripts might be faster.
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Bagne
ALL YOUR NUDIBRANCH ARE BELONG TO GASTROPODA




Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 518
Location: Halifax

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My plan is to define a "home position" for each joint, and then apply 3D rotations to make the elbows bend etc.

I think this would be a lot easier than specifying the location of each rock during each tick.

Walking will be a challenge: I'm thinking that when I draw the monster, I will have to choose one of the two feet, anchor it to a given coordinate, and draw the rest of the body accordingly. Between steps, I'd then switch the anchor to the other foot.

Maybe I was doing the 32 bit integer calculation incorrectly, but I found that for values approaching +- Pi, the calculation would go way off. It actually looked kinda cool: I had an animation of the monster continuously rotating, and at angles off ~ +-Pi, the rocks would fly apart, and after rotating a little more, they'd reconverge to the expected shape.

I took as many terms in the expansion as I could manage. For the argument of the function, I would input (628/100)*(A/16) (where 628/100 approximately equals 2Pi and A is a value between 1 and 16), then I rearranged the equation so that I only performed a single division in the entire calculation.
Since 32 bit signed integers can only store values of up to ~ 4 billion, I could only use two terms from the Taylor expansions. (628*16)^3 is a big number.
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Bagne
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Okay dudes,

I've uploaded a tech demo featuring the boulderbeast.
The creature isn't complete, but it has enough features to warrant a tech demo. This will give a pretty good idea of what the boulderbeast will be able to do.

I was unable to upload to Castle Paradox (shrugs), so I put it on Slime Salad:
http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewgame.php?t=3512

Enjoy!

Oh ... and ...
The slime salad post mentions a bug where x-axis (horizontal axis) rotations are a little screwy. If anyone has any idea what might be going on, please let me know.
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Bagne
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure I figured out why the joints behave strangely.

Most matrices are non-commutative, and the rotation matrices Rx Ry and Rz are not excepted.

In other words,
(1) I need to be careful what order I apply my rotation operations.
(2) There doesn't exist any rotation order that will work universally.
and so therefore
(3) I need to specify rotation orders *for each joint*.

I haven't tried this yet, but I'm quite confident that it will fix my problem. There's only 6 permutations of ordering Rx Ry and Rz. So each joint will store an additional value (from 1-6) which designates the preferred order of rotation.

I'll make these changes later - they're not critical. The Boulderbeast works well enough to animate - I've been waiting to do this for a long time. In a day or two, that boulderbeast will be walking!!!
At last! He moves!

Also: Yesterday I dreamed up a mental picture of the Klebberked monster. I'm planning on animating him in a similar way to that of the Boulderbeast, only a little fancier :-)
That will be much farther down the road however.

EDIT:
It's working! I've done his "turn" animation - that is, I've animated him shuffling his feet etc. as he turns to face different directions. Next, I'll animate him taking steps in NSEW directions.
When that's done, I'll post an update on slime salad.
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Bagne
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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok TMC, now you can see him walk!
http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewgame.php?t=3512

There's a walkabout animation, which has some room for improvement, but it will do for now. I've done it in a sub-optimal way I think ... I basically used the Tech Demo's Puppet mode to find the leg angles which keep the beast tile-aligned while walking.
Ideally, the angles should be automatically pre-calculated somehow so that if I make a different model, I could use more universal walking scripts.

I also implemented the simple harmonic oscillator. As I predicted, the SHO works, but the effect looks completely ridiculous (I've been laughing my head off after turning on the SHO in walkabout mode).
Currently, all of the slices have been assigned the same mass, spring constant, and damping term. I'd like to cater different values to each body part, and maybe the effect will look a lot more reasonable.

@Everyone
If you have anything to say, please post comments!

Next steps:
1) Fine tune the SHO effect
2) Implementing the beast in SandS (a live action boss battle)
3) Experiment with Boulderbeast-related stomping games!

EDIT:
The update now has an .exe file. If there were problems before in running the .rpg file, hopefully it will work now.

May 08 EDIT:
I've experimented with the SHO effect: If I turn up the spring constant ("k" in the m*a = - k*x - d*v), the oscillations have a smaller amplitude and look much more reasonable. However, for parts like the feet and hands, I think I may turn the SHO off entirely. I want the feet to look as if they are planted solidly on the ground.
I also might fiddle with the relative masses between stones so that the whole body doesn't wiggle around homogeneously.
The eyes are looking really good: They google about marvelously.
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Bagne
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't had much time to work on my game lately, but I've gathered together a considerable quantity of ideas.

First, I think I have settled on the workings of Saminaster's magic. He is a Tempest Mage, so he will be in control of the wind and the rain.
I already have scripted his "arc" ability, which lets him zap/hop 2 tiles over small obstacles... but more impressively, he will be able to bend the weather to match his will.
After some planning, I think I've hammered out how I would like this magic to work:

1) Clouds need vapour in order to form -> Sam needs to collect water vapour before summoning a rain shower. Water vapour is collected from water sources- lakes on a sunny day, foggy or misty areas, waterfalls, etc.

2) Sam's capacity for vapour storage varies with his vapour source. Puddles supply only small amounts of vapour, water geysers supply a lot. Vapour can only be stored for a limited amount of time, and it slowly leaks away. Areas of the map that are already cloudy allow Sam to summon rain at will without requiring him first absorb vapour.

3) The size of a released rain storm varies with the amount of vapour used. Small rainstorms can be pushed around when Sam summons gusts of wind. Large rainstorms cover a larger area but are immobile. Thunderstorms, the largest category, allow Saminaster to summon lightning.

4) Rain, wind, and lightning will all interact with Sam's surroundings. For example, rain can be used to grow a plant, and wind to spread the plant's pollen (there will be times where the player will be doing some gardening I think). Lightning can be used as a weapon, or to activate a magic statue, or to toggle certain types of Waddi flowers ... just to name a few things.

This game started pretty simple - now it's getting complicated.
Oh well, I think it's been worth it so far :-)

I have pages of other ideas written out for other monsters, puzzles, and magical powers, but I'll hold back on them for now.
I've got so much irl work to do right now :-(
I want to work on my game for a few weeks straight and see what I get at the end. Alas. The real world is sometimes less awesome than I'd like.

As always, I'm open to suggestions.
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Bagne
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also want to mention that I've figured out the general idea behind Moris/Chichou/LittleRedOne's magical powers. I want it to be a surprise, so I won't say much other than that they are suitably bizarre, and I hope his puzzles will be a little bit of a mind bender.

He will be by far the most powerful creature in the game, although powerful magic also tends to be powerfully mysterious and it doesn't always function according to expectation. This is not a reflection of any limitation in The Little Red One's power, but rather, a reflection of the fact that his/her/its whims do not always function according to expectation.

There is a fundamental law which all magical processes must obey: "Conservation of mystery." This law was discovered, and is now taught by the Prestigious Academy of Sorcery and Magic; the academy to which Saminaster and the other wizards belong. The Little Red One is the perfect living example of this law.
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Nepenthe




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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I've said yet just how excited I am for this game. Can't wait to see it completed (or at least more nifty tech demos)!
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Bagne
ALL YOUR NUDIBRANCH ARE BELONG TO GASTROPODA




Joined: 19 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - me too :-)
I appreciate the encouragement - it puts me to work.

I have a good idea of what the first release will contain, and it's mostly a matter just doing it. However, there's a few features which may be difficult or impractical without multi-thread support. This includes the Boulderbeast.

It's one thing to code up a walkabout for the Boulderbeast in a sterile environment, but if you want the creature to interact with a hero *and the hero's spells*, it's difficult to do without multiple threads.

I could conceivably script up an "execute each tick" stack or something similar, but I think that would require me to re-engineer almost everything else I've written.

I still have a fair ways to go. I need to:
1) Properly implement Sam's weather magic and its map-interactions (so far I only can turn the rain on and off). This is at least half of the upcoming work.
2) Script up some flashbacks. (I haven't discussed these, but they will be important throughout the game, particularly towards the end) This shouldn't take long once I get the details sorted out.
3) Put everything together. I'll probably change the layout of my forest map. Its current design has only a few types of puzzles in mind. No idea how long this would take.

I get the feeling that multi-thread support is fairly distant, so I might have to create an initial release which either:
1) skips the Boulderbeast altogether
xor
2) is relatively short and ends with a delicious cliffhanger (sorry I couldn't do this sooner, Pepsi Ranger :-P )

I'm also sort of waiting on map tile extra data or some kind of user defined data but this is slightly less important because I can make do with invisible map layers.

Oh ... and ...
I've tuned the SHO effect some more.
I turned it off for the hands and feet, and gave different masses to the other stones. I think the animation will need just a little more work, but it already looks as though the rocks are being animated by a magical force - they don't look like rigid balls-on-invisible-sticks anymore (which is exactly what they used to be).
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Pepsi Ranger
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A bunch of stuff that leads to:

I get the feeling that multi-thread support is fairly distant, so I might have to create an initial release which either:
1) skips the Boulderbeast altogether
xor
2) is relatively short and ends with a delicious cliffhanger (sorry I couldn't do this sooner, Pepsi Ranger :-P )


Based on a conversation I had with TMC last week, it seems he that he may have a prototype version of script multitasking in about two months. If that assumption holds, then there's no reason to sidestep or jerry-rig your plans. Hopefully he'll focus on this feature long enough to ensure that happens.

And don't worry about the cliffhanger contest. It was always meant to sweeten whatever pot the others contests offered. I never expected it to receive dedicated entries.
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Bagne
ALL YOUR NUDIBRANCH ARE BELONG TO GASTROPODA




Joined: 19 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a lot of fun making the Boulderbeast, so naturally, I'm thinking about other creatures I could try and make.

I've found myself watching boss fights on youtube, and was quite surprised to find that almost all SNES boss graphics can be done with OHR slices.

I started by looking at Mother Brain from Super Metroid ... to make a creature with a walk like hers might be a little clumsy in the OHR, but it's do-able: her thighs and shins rotate, and so I would have to upload numerous sprites for the shins and thighs for each angle ... I think there's 3-5 angles for each.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGOFQVhtFs
Her sphere neck looks a little ridiculous - I suspect they did that to give her head flexibility, and giving the player a more mobile target.
Anyways, I may end up making a good share of sphere-necks myself.

They're doing something similar here on the GBA - many sprites for many angles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srt-qTZRpgw

I was particularly impressed with this guy - they give his arms the appearance of flexibility without any kind of rotation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O6tICXqwfk

This first guy in the video here uses transparency, which the OHR doesn't have :-(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiffC7gblWw&feature=related

Of course, it would be way cooler if slices could be freely rotated, and then I could try and make something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bKCXoMC3qY
(This doesn't look like SNES ... what is it?)

I don't know how computer-costly slice rotation is ... it must be pretty high if it's not even employed on the GBA ... unless it's just an issue of resolution because low res rotation gives really bad aliasing.
I'm really hoping to see it sometime in the OHR - I think that when battlescripting is implemented, people will be wanting to animate giant bosses, and slice rotation would make the process a lot easier.

I also find myself hoping that the OHR will one day develop a means to organize slice graphics ... like if I could go into custom and edit all my Boulderbeast graphics under a single menu option.
Currently, the Boulderbeast graphics are in scattered throughout the walkabouts and small enemy sprites. Of course, the Boulderbeast graphics are neither of these things, they just happen to be of a similar size.

@ Pepsi
Sweeeeet!

EDIT: I am a fan of the SNES mode 7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAkSpq0FZJE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_7
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Newbie_Power




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't know how computer-costly slice rotation is ... it must be pretty high if it's not even employed on the GBA ...
Aria of Sorrow used sprite rotation a lot.
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Bagne
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've looked around a little more and there's several GBA examples of sprite rotation.

I suspect that the examples of sprite rotation/warping I've seen on the SNES are all mode 7, which, if I understand correctly, only works on a single layer.
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Bagne
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As my silence may have suggested, my game has been on hold for the past while.

I've come to realize that it would be very difficult to proceed without certain future features- multi-threads, arrays and user defined data.

The game is still on my todo list- and sometimes I find myself thinking about its control scheme and interface- but at the moment I'm working on other non-game projects: "On the Great Mystery of Rocks and Boxes." and "Mathematikoi"
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