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Clarify the site's rules.
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The Wobbler




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Clarify the site's rules. Reply with quote

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Jack
the fool




Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 773

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It should be noted that Rules must be strictly adhered to and members will be harshly punished when said rules are broken--no exception. Policies are general guidelines established by the Mods and Admins to help keep visits to Castle Paradox enjoyable.


I'm guessing Mods and Admins aren't apart of the 'members' category mentioned above?
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The Wobbler




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Clarify the site's rules. Reply with quote

PHC wrote:
If someone starts a thread and laughs about his illegal activities, how is this not in violation of the TOS?

I mean, casual discussion of something is one thing, but an admin posting a thread that starts "It's not out yet but guess who stole it teehee!" is lame as hell.


TOS wrote:
No Illegal Activity
Do not start a topic that encourages illegal activites. This may include (but isn't limited to) asking for warez and illegal materials.


An interesting predicilament. In [X]'s defense, he only talked about the movie, and did not mention any means of how [X] obtained it, nor listed any means to do so. Further, I've seen it as well, but it'll be a movie that I'd want to purchase when its released, and enjoy in a format that boasts significantly improved quality (DVD, english format, plus the extras). I'd suspect [X] would do the same. Does this excuse illegal activity? No, but at the moment, the only people who are complaining about it are those with an alternate agenda/don't like [X].

TOS wrote:
All public journal posts must adhere to rules above. Journals are self moderated and Castle Paradox makes no guarantee to the appropriateness of private posts.


I'm pretty sure this was written to cover people's asses in case they did in fact break the rules. Since only the users themselves can moderate their journals, this basically ends up that the forums themselves are subject to the "no illegal activity" clause. I wouldn't ban someone because of a post they made in their journal, I'd just simply not read it. On the other hand, if I see any of this on the Art Forum, heads'll fly.

TOS wrote:
It should be noted that Rules must be strictly adhered to and members will be harshly punished when said rules are broken--no exception.


Which means the mods and admins are subject to these rules too.

[X] wrote:
You can't "warn" an admin about anything anyways.


Sure you can, just good luck getting the warning enforced. v_v

Honestly, I think everyone's broken at least ONE of them by now, myself included. Then again, you guys wanted rules, here they are. If people think they're unfair, then geez, why'd you ask for them? Personally, the only rule we should have is "Don't be a dipshit".
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Cube
Dimensional Traveller




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 294

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was an amuzing opening line. I always add "Mwahahaha" to things I talk about Raspberry!.

Quote:
No Illegal Activity

Do not start a topic that encourages illegal activites. This may include (but isn't limited to) asking for warez and illegal materials.


1) I open it, state I have it, but not the means how I obtained it, and you assume I downloaded it. I may have gotten it another way too you know. You can't say for sure. In no way do I "encourage" anyone to download it, or anything. I didn't encourage any illegal activities. You wanna go download it that's your business, not CP's or mine.

2) I don't post any links, sites, or other means to get it. If someone happens to want to download it they're gonna have to search for themselves.

And the "You can't warn an admin" is referring to the fact that admins/mods already know about the rules, and the fact that I didn't break any. You just can't "warn" an admin, because all the admins we have aren't dumb enough to break rules. Raspberry!
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

...

...

Right.
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Gizmog1
Don't Lurk In The Bushes!




Joined: 05 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the hell is the matter with you people? Did any of you actually read the posts? (EDIT: This was before Moogle's post, and rereading Fenrir's post it makes a bit more sense. I could've sworn I read someone saying "If you don't like the forum, why don't you leave? But apparently it isn't there anymore. Cubie's post is still retarded.)

Surlaw's saying, rightly so, that by posting about a pirated movie, you're at least piquing the interest, and admitting approval of the subject. The site also has a Ragnarok Online Forum, which is not legal, a Retro Gaming forum which, if memory served, approved of, and attempted to distribute roms for game contests. No one is "Looking for holes in the rules" Merely looking for the rules we have to be enforced. We asked for rules, we want them to be enforced. The last line of Cubie's particularly gets me, as I think the real situation is more likely "Let's punish everyone WE don't like, but we can get away with it, because we're admins, and who's gonna stop us?". We're calling the rules unfair due to their (Lack of) enforcement, not the rules themselves.

I also disagree with the logic of that he never encouraged people to download it. We all know when the movie's officially released, we can figure out how he got it. I'd really like to hear how everyone how, or why "Everyone who's disagreeing with [X] (Namely Cube, why aren't we naming the accused?) has either alternate motives, or doesn't like Cube" What difference does it make who's laying the accusations, when the evidence is on the table? That's like saying that "Well, gee, sure this guy murdered your father, but you can't press charges against him, because you know, you're just pissed at him that he killed your father!"

You'll notice, that Fenrir at first comes out, saying that "He never really said he didn't buy it or watch it legally" and then goes on to talk about how he too had watched it, and how he was sure they both "WOULD" buy it when it came out. That is no excuse, and is rather akin to stealing a turkey to be sure you like it, and then buying a second turkey later.

Cubie claims to have in no way encouraged people to download it, and I disagree: He's an admin, he posted a positive review of it in his journal, before the date by which the film was to be released: Someone already anxious for the movie might be pushed over the edge by the thought that Cubie was doing it, wasn't being punished, and was obviously enjoying himself (Note the Mwahahaha, and the smily(es)).

Frankly, I think this just further drives home the fact that the only people who ever get punished on CP are people like PHC, or Uncy, or CN or Iblis, people who the admins don't like, and look for any excuse to get rid of, whilst people the admins DO like (SilentAngel, AdrianX, FyreWulff, and now Cubie, hell even IM's own ridiculous "BIG JOKE LOL" ) are given a free pass to do as they will harassing people.

If these new rules are going to stick, they must be adhered to, and examples must be made. Admins and Moderators, like myself, are examples to everyone, and the rules must apply even harsher to them. Cubie has violated these rules, one of our stricter rules, and a failure to punish him would only open the door for further offenses. Sure, it starts as DVD Rips now, but wait until it gets to Software Piracy. Or Child pornography. A failure to make a firm example of what happens to lawbreakers here will only lead us to worse offenses, and make it harder to stop. We have to stop this thing while it's still a mere snowball, and not an all out avalanche. As such, I request Cubie tender his resignation as an Admin immediately, and that Fenrir Lunaris be promoted into Cubie's place.
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The Wobbler




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Clarify the site's rules. Reply with quote

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Iblis
Ghost Cat




Joined: 26 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the only people who ever get punished on CP are people like PHC, or Uncy, or CN or Iblis


Uh, actually I don't think I've ever been punished or even warned for anything.

Anyway, I agree with the rest of your post. When Cube says "hey guys there's this thing that I got illegally and it is really great," that is pretty encouraging to people who might want to acquire the movie illegally. And there's really no doubt that Cube got it illegally, because of this line:

"I may have gotten it another way too you know. You can't say for sure."

Well, you can, and the only reason that you wouldn't say for sure is if you got it illegally and don't want to say so. If you had gotten it legally, you would've said something more like "actually I got it legally, and here are the things I did in order to get it" in your defense.

And the argument that it's okay just because it's in the journals makes no sense. The TOS specifically says "All public journal posts must adhere to rules above." The self-moderation thing is just to let you delete posts and block users and stuff like that, it doesn't mean you can make up your own rules (at least, not any rules that contradict the TOS).
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Clarify the site's rules. Reply with quote

To defend Cube in that aspect, I had heard that some copies were being distributed before the actual release date. This happens quite often, especially with in-demand movies. Benefit of the doubt here, folks.

PHC wrote:
I don't understand the point of saying journals must adhere to the rules if they don't actually have to.


Neither do I? If it were friends-only, I guess it'd be fine. By posting it openly, you're assuming that we're all friends unless we say otherwise. Again, benefit of the doubt.
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Gizmog1
Don't Lurk In The Bushes!




Joined: 05 Mar 2003
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Location: Lurking In The Bushes!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think IM even clarified that in the first Soapbox posts after we got the rules, when I asked him what "Self-Moderating" meant. He meant that EVERY public post had to obey the terms of service, but that the deletion of posts, blocking of users, and what goes on in private is up to the creator of the journal. This is clearly an attempt to have it both ways.

EDIT: That's the lamest excuse ever, and you've totally changed your tune, Fenrir! A while ago, you hadn't heard anything about it, and were saying "Gee, even if he did pirate it, he'd buy it LATER" implying that he hadn't yet bought it. Cubie himself says "IT ISN'T EVEN RELEASED IN JAPAN YET" which would imply that he didn't get it through an early release. After all, had there been an early release, he could've simply said, or at least would've found it worthy of note that "My Walmart was selling it early!" but he never mentioned that he bought it or not. There simply is no reason to believe anything but that he stole it, due to your comments, his comments, and the lack of comments that he could've made at any point to the contrary. He posted it publically, in violation of the terms of service. He's an admin, he should know if he wants to be a pirate, to do it in private. But no, he chose to flaunt it openly, and he must be punished.


Last edited by Gizmog1 on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Wobbler




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Clarify the site's rules. Reply with quote

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Cube
Dimensional Traveller




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 294

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop putting words into my mouth. I had enjoyed watching it... I wanted to share. "hey guys there's this thing that I got illegally and it is really great"? Yeah, right.

I watched it. I enjoyed it. I wanted to share my thoughts. It wasn't really a review since I find reviews to spoil things, so I just simply posted my thoughts. It's a heavy action movie, nicely related to the game, a lot of nice things like music and characters are brought over into it. The entirety of the post is talking about the movie. No links to downloads. I'm not saying "So, now that I told you it's cool, go download it for yourself! C'mon, you know you want to". You guys just have an opinion on the matter, and you think me talking about it is wrong. According to the site rules, it's not and I made a post that worked within the site rules. This is a fact. The rules can be changed, so if you want to see the Illegal section updated, by all means say so here. But I can't be held responsible for something just because someone says "I think it's wrong".

For what it's worth, I apologize for upsetting anyone. This was never my intention, I just wanted to make a fun topic, especially since it was my first post in a couple months (Don't usually have something to talk about Raspberry!). And yes, I did say something mean to PHC in my first post, but removed it shortly after posting because I don't want to cause any more trouble than this already is. Plus, I'm not really that mean, I'm just very upset this got more blown out of proportion than it should have.


I understand you guys just want to make CP a better place by making sure what I posted doesn't lead into worse things like actual postings of links to things (Or I hope so, and you're NOT just trying to make my life miserable). I know where you're coming from, is what I'm saying. Honestly myself, I think talking about it is ok... But if the community as a whole thinks otherwise, the rules will be changed.

Again, I apologize and please remember, the rules aren't written in stone. Many eyes are on this topic right now... If you want something included in the rules/words changed say it. People HAVE gotten away with murder because of bad wording in laws, and it's stuff like that that need to be avoided.
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giz, I cannot seriously take your position on enforcing the rules, when you post crazy stuff on the forums again and again. The suicide letter? The weekly "party threads" with no actual explaination? This talk about setting an example is very, very true, but come on. It's like the president of the SGA talking about no running in the halls - then skateboarding down them himself.

PHC, I think you're a pretty level headed guy and all. Hell, I agree with you on most points you make, mostly because they're well thought out and MAKE SENSE. But recently, I've seen that on every single occasion when Leroy or Silent posts something, it's almost as though you go out of your way to point out your total opposition to whatever they just said. It's almost like you're flaming them.

As far as the "no illegal stuff" goes... how many here have played FFIII? That's what I thought.

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Iblis
Ghost Cat




Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1233
Location: Your brain

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As far as the "no illegal stuff" goes... how many here have played FFIII? That's what I thought.


Totally irrelevent. We're not arguing whether or not it was wrong for Cube to download Advent Children, we're arguing about whether his post was in violation of the rules. Furthermore, flaws in one person are no excuse for flaws in someone else. Even if Giz or PHC or I were constantly downloading pirated shows/movies (I'm not), that doesn't mean it's okay for Cube to do it.

Your paragraph about Giz is also unrelated. I think his random spamming is annoying and I agree that he should try to set an example himself, but that has nothing to do with this argument. Don't argue against the person, argue against the ideas. Saying "but Giz you break the rules too" has nothing to do with whether or not Cube broke the rules in his thread.
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