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Gizmog1 Don't Lurk In The Bushes!
Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 2257 Location: Lurking In The Bushes!
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Firstly, the threads aren't WEEKLY. Secondly, the suicide note was going too far, the thread was closed. I've been banned 3 times for my pranks, I've done my time, and I'm trying to turn over a new leaf. But I'm sick and tired of this logic that just because I don't always behave, I can't try and get the rules enforced. The fact that I'm still here at all really reflects badly on the rules system in general. Now, I'm willing to resign my moderator controls of Sigma Epsilon Chi, and the authority it involves, so long as I can choose my successor, and Cubie resigns his Adminship. That's also a good point: He's an admin, I'm only a moderator. The rules should apply more to me than to the average person, and to Cubie, IM, and other admins even higher. I demand impeachment, and I'm willing to get rid of my own authority as a show of authenticity, and to validate the whole thing. |
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Fenrir-Lunaris WUT
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1747
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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The part about Giz is related insofar as he stated that he'd like to see the moderators set an example for the rest of the community, and I thought it was a bit contradictory. I probably should have clarified that better, but I can't wave a wand and fix it.
At any rate, if I'M getting confused on whether the argument was about downloading the movie, or about the legality of posting ABOUT the movie, then there's something fundamentally wrong about this whole business to begin with. I seriously thought this was about Cube seeing the movie and people accusing him of stealing it, not about the thread itself. Unless I read all that wrong? |
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Iblis Ghost Cat
Joined: 26 May 2003 Posts: 1233 Location: Your brain
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I seriously thought this was about Cube seeing the movie and people accusing him of stealing it, not about the thread itself. Unless I read all that wrong? |
Just look at the first sentence of the thread:
Quote: | If someone starts a thread and laughs about his illegal activities, how is this not in violation of the TOS? |
That's what PHC was asking about. This thread is about clarifying the site's rules. He didn't ask whether piracy was wrong, he asked whether posting about it was against the rules. And if you look at the following posts that's what the majority of them are about, debating the rules rather than whether piracy is okay (though I think it's safe to say that Giz, PHC, and I are against it). _________________ Locked
OHR Piano |
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Fenrir-Lunaris WUT
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1747
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Gizmog1 wrote: | I've been banned 3 times for my pranks, I've done my time, and I'm trying to turn over a new leaf. But I'm sick and tired of this logic that just because I don't always behave, I can't try and get the rules enforced. |
Fair enough, I'll quit bringing it up. Although aiming for Cube's impeachment, while offering up your own status in return seems a little.. well... extreme comes to mind.
He basically apologized for causing the whole mess, and seeing as he really hasn't done squat to justify an immediate loss of powers in the whole time he's been here, I myself wouldn't be able to justify stripping him, even if I could. So it boils down to whether or not having a thread about a movie that wasn't out yet is entirely justified given the present rules set. And given what I've seen, yes, it needs to be amended in certain respects. Sound like a fair compromise? |
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Gizmog1 Don't Lurk In The Bushes!
Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 2257 Location: Lurking In The Bushes!
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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The point of the thread, as I understand it, is that the rules CLEARLY prohibit anything that encourages illegal activity. Cubie posts about a movie, and asks for peoples thoughts on it, and gives his own thoughts in a PUBLIC POST on a movie that has not yet been legally released. He is thus encouraging, and admitting to doing something illegal, and his position as an admin makes it doubly bad. We're saying, as such, that he's in violation of TOS, and needs to be punished, be it a suspension of being an admin, a brief ban, loss of admin status, or a public scolding. Since the implementation of the TOS, I don't believe I have violated them. Cubie did, however.
He could have legally posted it as a private journal entry, but instead he chose to post it publically, and as such, actions must be taken.
EDIT: So, basically what I'm hearing from you and Cubie is, he got pinched for something, so we're going to change the rules? I think he needs something stiffer than a warning, however I agree that perhaps impeachment is too far for this first offense. I don't understand what you mean by "Fair compromise", could you perhaps elaborate a bit? Perhaps a trial by the people of the community.
EDIT EDIT: And you know, it occurs to me, that I've always suggested we have TALK and DISCUSSION of the rules, to make sure that everyone understands them, and how far they extend, and as usual, I was ignored. Now what do you know, there's arguments about the rules, and I bet a buck we wind up with all sorts of ammendments that allow admins to get away with whatever crime they commit. "THOU SHALT NOT PROPAGATE ILLEGAL ANIME; IN EXCESS"
Last edited by Gizmog1 on Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2221
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Note from Castle Paradox Administration: | This content has been removed by the user. Contact the original author and link them to this post if you wish to view the original content. Only the author can remove the tags hiding this content. |
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Iblis Ghost Cat
Joined: 26 May 2003 Posts: 1233 Location: Your brain
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure that Cube needs to be punished for the thread, and certainly stripping his admin powers would be a bit extreme. Due to the fact that the TOS is new and that his post didn't really harm anything, I think a warning should do fine for now.
This rule should probably be changed for clarity. As we have seen, people disagree about what it means to "encourage" illegal activity. Whether it is changed to "do not talk about illegal activity at all" (making the rule more strict) or "do not give directions on how to perform illegal activities" (making the rule more lenient) remains to be decided. _________________ Locked
OHR Piano |
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LeRoy_Leo Project manager Class S Minstrel
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 Posts: 2683 Location: The dead-center of your brain!
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Gizmog1 wrote: | We're saying, as such, that he's in violation of TOS, and needs to be punished, be it a suspension of being an admin, a brief ban, loss of admin status, or a public scolding. |
Or this thread..?
"It's not even out in Japan yet, but I have it~ Mwahahaha. It's 6am so bare with me if my post is weird and stuff... "
Do you guys think he could lessen the sentence by pleading temporary insanity? _________________ Planning Project Blood Summons, an MMORPG which will incinerate all of the others with it's sheer brilliance...
---msw188 ---
"Seriously James, you keep rolling out the awesome like gingerbread men on a horror-movie assembly line. " |
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Fenrir-Lunaris WUT
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1747
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Gizmog1 wrote: | So, basically what I'm hearing from you and Cubie is, he got pinched for something, so we're going to change the rules? |
Moreso in that we should better clarify the difference between the forums, and the journals. Except the journals are more or less the forums now, so.... My quest for the night now is to look for the spot that says "Castle Paradox does not condone the views expressed by its members and takes no responsibility for the actions of its membership".
As for PHC's post - thanks for clarifying your position on Leroy's mysterious posting habits, though when you write "THIS MAKES MY BRAIN HURT", I really start to wonder.
Now that we've set our positions down, we need to figure a way to keep this from happening again. Clearly punishing someone won't work completely, because there's some actual doubt about the procedure. You can't enforce a rule, if it has even the slightest contradiction in itself. Suggestions on how to solve this, gentlemen? |
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Gizmog1 Don't Lurk In The Bushes!
Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 2257 Location: Lurking In The Bushes!
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Leroy, I'll give you a dollar to stay out of this. You're amusing sometimes, but I don't know how much you can really add to this debate, nor how much your post has added to it. I like your avatar, by the way. |
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2221
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Note from Castle Paradox Administration: | This content has been removed by the user. Contact the original author and link them to this post if you wish to view the original content. Only the author can remove the tags hiding this content. |
Last edited by The Wobbler on Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fenrir-Lunaris WUT
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1747
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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LeRoy_Leo wrote: | Gizmog1 wrote: | We're saying, as such, that he's in violation of TOS, and needs to be punished, be it a suspension of being an admin, a brief ban, loss of admin status, or a public scolding. |
Or this thread..? |
Actually, he's right. This qualifies as a public scolding. And Iblis's suggestion is good too:
Iblis wrote: | This rule should probably be changed for clarity. As we have seen, people disagree about what it means to "encourage" illegal activity. Whether it is changed to "do not talk about illegal activity at all" (making the rule more strict) or "do not give directions on how to perform illegal activities" (making the rule more lenient) remains to be decided. |
In this case, I motion for the second suggestion. |
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2221
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Note from Castle Paradox Administration: | This content has been removed by the user. Contact the original author and link them to this post if you wish to view the original content. Only the author can remove the tags hiding this content. |
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Gizmog1 Don't Lurk In The Bushes!
Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 2257 Location: Lurking In The Bushes!
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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How about we start a new thread, maybe even I'll start it in my journal, and we'll go down rule by rule, and discuss what is and isn't violations of that rule? That way there'd be some precedent when these things happen, and we'd be able to sort of figure out what rule violations deserve which punishments and all. I will accept this as a public scolding, but we should also be sure to remember this as a red mark on his record for further situations. Also, as an asides, I think the NEW JOURNAL messages number may be a bit screwy sometimes. I would also agree with the second rather than the first example, HOWEVER, I think we should be sure to make sure that discussing of illegal activities be done in as negative, or neutral a manner as possible. Somehow a simple warning doesn't seem to be enough, as we have no idea whether or not Cubie really understands the seriousness of it.
EDIT: PHC put it well. A firm warning from someone with serious authority would settle things finely. |
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Cube Dimensional Traveller
Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 294
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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That's the problem though... Besides IM, Squall and me ARE the highest authority. That's why I'm so confused over this subject, especially since I personally think the thread was fine. Although I do admit the opening line could be considered an encouragement to piracy to some, but I dunno... If I saw someone else post something like that I'd just think "Neat". Just like before FF8 came out, I knew someone on some forums who had the game before release. When inquired about it, he just said it was from his "connections" which could be a variety of things. In the end I thought it was cool, but didn't seek it out for an illegal download.
After thinking about it a lot, I think the thing I'm guilty most of is being inconsiderate of what others might think. I didn't think people would get tempted to download it... I really posted the thread with good intentions.
(But it was just intended at to just get "Wow, that's cool" reactions , just for the record. That is, the opening sentence).
I have 3 replies written up concerning this subject, all with good points I think. I'd recommend starting a new thread since I think they'd have a better place in such a thread. |
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