Clarify the site's rules.

Gizmog1 · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject:

Firstly, the threads aren't WEEKLY. Secondly, the suicide note was going too far, the thread was closed. I've been banned 3 times for my pranks, I've done my time, and I'm trying to turn over a new leaf. But I'm sick and tired of this logic that just because I don't always behave, I can't try and get the rules enforced. The fact that I'm still here at all really reflects badly on the rules system in general. Now, I'm willing to resign my moderator controls of Sigma Epsilon Chi, and the authority it involves, so long as I can choose my successor, and Cubie resigns his Adminship. That's also a good point: He's an admin, I'm only a moderator. The rules should apply more to me than to the average person, and to Cubie, IM, and other admins even higher. I demand impeachment, and I'm willing to get rid of my own authority as a show of authenticity, and to validate the whole thing.

Fenrir-Lunaris · **WUT** Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1745

The part about Giz is related insofar as he stated that he'd like to see the moderators set an example for the rest of the community, and I thought it was a bit contradictory. I probably should have clarified that better, but I can't wave a wand and fix it.

At any rate, if I'M getting confused on whether the argument was about downloading the movie, or about the legality of posting ABOUT the movie, then there's something fundamentally wrong about this whole business to begin with. I seriously thought this was about Cube seeing the movie and people accusing him of stealing it, not about the thread itself. Unless I read all that wrong?
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Iblis · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject:

Fenrir-Lunaris · **WUT** Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1745

Gizmog1 · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject:

The point of the thread, as I understand it, is that the rules CLEARLY prohibit anything that encourages illegal activity. Cubie posts about a movie, and asks for peoples thoughts on it, and gives his own thoughts in a PUBLIC POST on a movie that has not yet been legally released. He is thus encouraging, and admitting to doing something illegal, and his position as an admin makes it doubly bad. We're saying, as such, that he's in violation of TOS, and needs to be punished, be it a suspension of being an admin, a brief ban, loss of admin status, or a public scolding. Since the implementation of the TOS, I don't believe I have violated them. Cubie did, however.

He could have legally posted it as a private journal entry, but instead he chose to post it publically, and as such, actions must be taken.

EDIT: So, basically what I'm hearing from you and Cubie is, he got pinched for something, so we're going to change the rules? I think he needs something stiffer than a warning, however I agree that perhaps impeachment is too far for this first offense. I don't understand what you mean by "Fair compromise", could you perhaps elaborate a bit? Perhaps a trial by the people of the community.

EDIT EDIT: And you know, it occurs to me, that I've always suggested we have TALK and DISCUSSION of the rules, to make sure that everyone understands them, and how far they extend, and as usual, I was ignored. Now what do you know, there's arguments about the rules, and I bet a buck we wind up with all sorts of ammendments that allow admins to get away with whatever crime they commit. "THOU SHALT NOT PROPAGATE ILLEGAL ANIME; IN EXCESS"

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

Iblis · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure that Cube needs to be punished for the thread, and certainly stripping his admin powers would be a bit extreme. Due to the fact that the TOS is new and that his post didn't really harm anything, I think a warning should do fine for now.

This rule should probably be changed for clarity. As we have seen, people disagree about what it means to "encourage" illegal activity. Whether it is changed to "do not talk about illegal activity at all" (making the rule more strict) or "do not give directions on how to perform illegal activities" (making the rule more lenient) remains to be decided.
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LeRoy_Leo · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject:

Fenrir-Lunaris · **WUT** Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1745

Gizmog1 · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject:

Leroy, I'll give you a dollar to stay out of this. You're amusing sometimes, but I don't know how much you can really add to this debate, nor how much your post has added to it. I like your avatar, by the way.

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

Fenrir-Lunaris · **WUT** Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1745

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

Gizmog1 · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject:

How about we start a new thread, maybe even I'll start it in my journal, and we'll go down rule by rule, and discuss what is and isn't violations of that rule? That way there'd be some precedent when these things happen, and we'd be able to sort of figure out what rule violations deserve which punishments and all. I will accept this as a public scolding, but we should also be sure to remember this as a red mark on his record for further situations. Also, as an asides, I think the NEW JOURNAL messages number may be a bit screwy sometimes. I would also agree with the second rather than the first example, HOWEVER, I think we should be sure to make sure that discussing of illegal activities be done in as negative, or neutral a manner as possible. Somehow a simple warning doesn't seem to be enough, as we have no idea whether or not Cubie really understands the seriousness of it.

EDIT: PHC put it well. A firm warning from someone with serious authority would settle things finely.

Cube · **Dimensional Traveller** Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 293

That's the problem though... Besides IM, Squall and me ARE the highest authority. That's why I'm so confused over this subject, especially since I personally think the thread was fine. Although I do admit the opening line could be considered an encouragement to piracy to some, but I dunno... If I saw someone else post something like that I'd just think "Neat". Just like before FF8 came out, I knew someone on some forums who had the game before release. When inquired about it, he just said it was from his "connections" which could be a variety of things. In the end I thought it was cool, but didn't seek it out for an illegal download.

After thinking about it a lot, I think the thing I'm guilty most of is being inconsiderate of what others might think. I didn't think people would get tempted to download it... I really posted the thread with good intentions.

(But it was just intended at to just get "Wow, that's cool" reactions Raspberry!

, just for the record. That is, the opening sentence).

I have 3 replies written up concerning this subject, all with good points I think. I'd recommend starting a new thread since I think they'd have a better place in such a thread.