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Vast and Lonely

 
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Artimus Bena
Admiral




Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 637
Location: Dreamland.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:26 am    Post subject: Vast and Lonely Reply with quote

If I don't get a 5 for this, I will just have give up on you guys. Easily my most realistic, and probably one of THE best tracks I've ever written.

http://www.castleparadox.com/songlist-display.php?song=351&sid=7b9f51cb97efdc8b5120834cacd3a28d
Click it.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's not pompous at all.

I'll give it a listen later today.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here's the thing.

You start off slow and ambient. This is acceptable for a song named "Vast and Lonely," but it's not evocative: I don't really feel like this song is expressing the loneliness of space. I have the same problem with many of your songs, but this is a stylistic disagreement -- I prefer music to play a more active role and you prefer ambient, environmental pieces. So chalk this up to a difference in opinion.

But then you get to the fast section and it's really out of left field and it just doesn't fit here. If the music were cued to the action, this would make total sense, but as far as I can tell, it's not; it seems to just be looped.

This piece is technically excellent, as is everything you do. It also feels soulless to me (again, a problem I have with many of your pieces -- and Setu's, for that matter). But the big problem I have with it is that it just doesn't fit with your stated theme. It isn't vast or lonely.

I'm also really unclear what you mean when you say this is your most "realistic" song. Maybe you were referring to the instrumentation? Otherwise, I have no idea what makes a song realistic.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll disagree with most of this -- but hopefully there's something useful for you here.
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Spoon Weaver




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like 2 different songs; the first half being lonely, and the second half being vast. You should switch the title around to better suit this.

As for "realistic", wouldn't the song were you're singing be more "realistic" since it's real and not made on a computer.

It's a pretty good song, but it seems like it would be better if it was made for something and I could see it with that said something. Most ambient music is like this I think.

Good stuff I guess.
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Artimus Bena
Admiral




Joined: 17 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I should further explain the purpose of this track. It is meant to be a test track, and it contains the four or five points the team is looking for in the music. In point of fact, I have about a minute and a half more to go on this track; perhaps I should have introduced it as a rough draft. The title was last minute. I would have expected one to complain the title didn't fit the music, rather than disliking the music because it didn't fit the title.

The only reason I can see why you might think it's soulless is the general lack of de/crescendos, and the unchanging tempo. Both of these can do wonders on the soul of a track, but they are time consuming; until recently, I've just used other tricks. Otherwise, yes, I'll have to disagree; I put a lot of feeling and imagination into everything I compose.


Yes, by realistic I mean the instrumentation. Also, I was referring specifically to game tracks, I didn't intend to include 'lovers'.


Thank you for your objective analysis, I will do what I can to incorporate your advice. After all, I will probably be dealing with critics all my life who don't necessarily see my music the way I would hope.
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8bit
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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Location: In the thoughts and dreams of all the world's children.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quiet part reminds me of something by Pink Floyd. I think off of the studio half of Umaguma?

When the loud part comes in, it reminds me of Lord of the Dance. Actually, more like a commercial for Lord of the Dance. I don't know why.

Technically, the track is impressive. There just isn't really anything about it that makes me want to listen to it. I wish I had some more constructive criticism to give you. I just find it hard to convey my emotional reaction to music in words.
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Artimus Bena
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took some of your advice and applied it. A new version has been uploaded. The beginning especially is where most of the changes are. I think it really helped the rest of the song to have a more expressive piano part. I also made the transition from the soft music to the danger music a bit smoother. Thank you again for your honest feedback.
http://castleparadox.com/songlist-display.php?song=352


Quote:
Yeah, that's not pompous at all.

We obviously don't speak the same language. I was excited about a piece of music I was proud of (fundamentally because I'm getting closer to the film score stylings I've been wanting to graduate to). I have never faced more judging ears, how can I possibly give up on trying to change your mind?
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Spoon Weaver




Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you putting merit in the rating system? That's just going to leave you heartbroken when people start jokingly rating terrible songs to the top of the list. Then, you'll try to be more like those songs and people will say it sucks and you just won't understand why.

Anyways, the songs nice. What's it for anyways?
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Artimus Bena
Admiral




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, one can write music for themselves, or for other people. There are gray areas there, and that's where I tend to be. In either case, improvement means prosperity.

This is a track I've been working on a couple days for a sci-fi multiplayer RTS, like an online starcraft. Not sure if I have the job yet, but they're funded, which means payment. I tend to get anywhere from 50 bucks to 100 bucks a track, depending on complexity and time spent.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Vast and Lonely Reply with quote

I was referring to this line:

Artimus Bena wrote:
If I don't get a 5 for this, I will just have give up on you guys.


Re the new version: The transition between the two sections is much smoother this time around. I still don't know what you're going for with this piece, though. I have a hard time coming up with a context where it would fit well.
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Artimus Bena
Admiral




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Location: Dreamland.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I know which line you were referring to.

I guess I see what you mean about context. I suppose I've had more of an opening cutscene in mind than any particular game situation.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, you have two entries for this song on the game list. I'm not sure if you meant to do that.
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Artimus Bena
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason that happened when I updated the song. I'm not sure, but I think the rating it was given applied to both entries. Maybe IM or Cube can answer this one. Or perhaps I just did that on accident. Doesn't really help me to have two different versions of a song on the list.
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