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Alpha version reccommendations

 
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject: Alpha version reccommendations Reply with quote

Thanks to PHC and JSH's wonderful comments and feedback, I've a better idea of what to fix in the updated version of Vikings. Namely, the atrociously high encounter rate, and also some other bugs as well. Stop me if I'm forgetting anything.

Arrow No way to tell who can equip what!
Arrow No indication you should go out and gather more heroes before adventuring!
Arrow Various NPC fixes! Curse the ending scene!
Arrow Better balancing of EXP rewards
Arrow Lowering cash prizes O_O
Arrow Bossrush?
Arrow Sound effects!

I am also considering adding 5 new heroes, which may radically alter the gameplay. These are:

Pirate - A decent fighter, can heal, and cast elemental magic. Basically a rip of a Red Mage.
Necromancer - Healing reversed for her, casts spells that slay and raise the dead. Can summon a skeleton in battles to assist the player for a small length of time.
Ninja - The fastest hero ever! Am thinking of tinkering with the item consumption availible in the latest nightlies to test out throwing items, such as special ninja scrolls. of course, what a ninja is doing in a game with Vikings is beyond me.
Gunslinger - A traveller from another dimension who uses a "magical" weapon to dispatch creatures from afar.
Caveman - A secret character perhaps, you'd have no control over them, for a challenge?

...so now we have Pirates, Ninjas, Cowboys, Vikings, and MAYBE Cavemen too, making this game the pinnicle of OHR manliness. In addition, and just to be a jerk, I'm considering adding in a "Chicken Knife", because there has to be some super-secret weapon hidden in the game somewhere that the player actually has to take the time to train up with. And at least one sidequest for each hero.
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Uncommon
His legend will never die




Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 2503

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only played the first section so far (take that as an honor, seeing how other than replaying WH for my review, this is the first game I've played in ages), and the first point was prolly the biggest thing with me.
Also, the town design was kind've unclear. By the time I'd realized there was an item shop behind the smithy shop, I'd already spent all my money. Twice.
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Newbie_Power




Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Caveman - A secret character perhaps, you'd have no control over them, for a challenge?
Make him an anthro-furry-artwork-like Yeti for good effe- Oh wait.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that at least the Caveman and Gunslinger should be secret characters.

I remember how much I enjoyed figuring out how to get the secret Characters Umaro and Gogo in FF6.

And another suggestion-- which might be unpopular, and would certainly affect game balance, would be to limit the availability of heroes.

Your original choice of a hero in the begi9nning has little consequence, because you can hire all heroes right away with no cost. So you can change your team around at will at any time.

What if you made some special item that you had to trade to the tavern-hero-shop in order to hire helpers? In the intro, you could be given 3 of these items (3 hero medallions, or 3 acorns of the world tree, whatever) and told to go and pick three helpers. Since you would be limited, you would have to choose carefully.

Then, as you go through the game you could be rewarded with more of the items, so you could gradually add more heroes to your party in ones and twoes as you returned to the town after each mission.

But like I say, that would represent a huge change in balance, so if you don't like it, I will not be offended :)
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Newbie_Power




Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it would be unpopular. I played through most of Vikings (I still need to finish it) using Valkyrie, Ranger, Rogue, and Shaman without changing my party until I decided that my Ranger wasn't contributing enough for end-game use and began to level up a Fighter in his/her place. Being able to have many party members from the get-go already has a downside, and that is having to level them all up (which is probably why leveling isn't very hard Vikings of Midgard).
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncommon wrote:
Also, the town design was kind've unclear. By the time I'd realized there was an item shop behind the smithy shop, I'd already spent all my money. Twice.


What I COULD do, is as soon as you cross the bridge into the main part of town, Freki should stop the player and give them a brief tour, showing them important locations like the Inn, the smithy, and so on. Then, as soon as you enter the forest Area, she'll come back and scold you if you didn't recruit extra heroes at the tavern. This works well, because Odin's too lazy to help out anyway and has to send his servent at least two more times to help you out.

James Paige wrote:
I think that at least the Caveman and Gunslinger should be secret characters. I remember how much I enjoyed figuring out how to get the secret Characters Umaro and Gogo in FF6.


I was considering that they could only be recruited in a specific area of the game, probably in the glacier section since that part is severely lacking in substance. Perhaps the party gets kidnapped or magically detained? If this happened, I could easily write in a scene where Odin gets impatient again and has his servents pick ANOTHER group of heroes to continue the quest, and they in turn free the originals (then join up). Not only would this be more interesting story wise (since it shows the Gods really don't care about their champions - they can always get more, and this fits in with the later themes and dungeons of the game) it also provides an interesting break for the player from the main quest, and shows that they can try out different heroes if they're getting bored with the main ones.

James Paige wrote:
And another suggestion-- which might be unpopular, and would certainly affect game balance, would be to limit the availability of heroes. Your original choice of a hero in the beginning has little consequence, because you can hire all heroes right away with no cost. So you can change your team around at will at any time.


An alternative, which I had kicked around at the beginning of the project would have been that every character only shows up at particular times, ie: the Ranger joins after the forest is healed because as an elf, because she's grateful for what you've done. Of course, this came off as somewhat contrived, but it DOES give the heroes the chance for some individual character development, even if only a little. I could still do this, and it would come out fairly enjoyable if I did it well, but I'd be worried about losing some of the novelty of having the player themself decide who they wanted to take.

The question then becomes, if I limit certain heroes to only appearing after key events, who shows up where? The Ranger is obvious (forest), and the Missionary should be availible at the start - maybe arguing with some heathens that wolves do not chase the sun across the sky. What happens if Freki goes into the main hall and finds no heroes there - and only the Warrior manages to show up, making excuses that the building was hard to find? If I could guarantee that the game's experience would be improved significantly by doing this, I would change it in a heartbeat.


James Paige wrote:
What if you made some special item that you had to trade to the tavern-hero-shop in order to hire helpers? In the intro, you could be given 3 of these items (3 hero medallions, or 3 acorns of the world tree, whatever) and told to go and pick three helpers. Since you would be limited, you would have to choose carefully.

Then, as you go through the game you could be rewarded with more of the items, so you could gradually add more heroes to your party in ones and twoes as you returned to the town after each mission.

But like I say, that would represent a huge change in balance, so if you don't like it, I will not be offended Happy


I actually tried something like this in Final Fantasy H. Wink Though adding only one or two to the party at a time makes sense to me.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fenrir-Lunaris wrote:
... I could easily write in a scene where Odin gets impatient again and has his servents pick ANOTHER group of heroes to continue the quest,


That would be comedy gold!
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, and this wasn't covered in the review, but a lot of people liked being able to return to Valhalla at any time. Perhaps each of the four Gemstones could return the heroes to a designated spot in the four main regions (Forest, Desert, Glacier, Mountain)? Or perhaps defeating the Airship2600 lets you board it, and go to any region you choose?

I'm also thinking of adding in 7-league boots that any hero can equip, which dramatically improve your running speed. Note that the Rogue already has this inherant ability (hold down X when walking).

And unless there was a plotscript to "alter weapon bonuses" or something, no Chicken knife. UNLESS it's a special cursed item that automatically equips itself to your leader if you run away. That might be pretty funny, actually.
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The Wobbler




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normal Walking speed is 4. Running (X) is 5. The Rogue's running is 10. The rogue's running with the Ninja's Gear equipped is 20. These vaulues, combined with the game's soon-to-be default encounter rate of (3) should make travelling around the various maps even less of a chore.

The 7-league boots would likely make everyone run as fast as the rogue, and for convenience's sake, I would rather place this item near the beginning of the game. Perhaps it should be aquired after beating someone in a race... the desert does have a lot of empty space that just begs for something... Then again, there's an entire "track" around the lake in the forest, which could serve equally well as a course to run around. Could it be circled around in under 3 minutes?
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Jack
the fool




Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 773

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Normal Walking speed is 4. Running (X) is 5. The Rogue's running is 10. The rogue's running with the Ninja's Gear equipped is 20. These vaulues, combined with the game's soon-to-be default encounter rate of (3) should make travelling around the various maps even less of a chore.

The 7-league boots would likely make everyone run as fast as the rogue, and for convenience's sake, I would rather place this item near the beginning of the game. Perhaps it should be aquired after beating someone in a race... the desert does have a lot of empty space that just begs for something... Then again, there's an entire "track" around the lake in the forest, which could serve equally well as a course to run around. Could it be circled around in under 3 minutes?


Perhaps a whole racing circuit? Compete in each area's track, win and get the boots.

Well, I guess that'd kind of take away from getting the boots early.
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps other benefits could be had? Clearly there's lots of space to fill up, each of which could sport mini-games themed to each area. It was something I felt was lacking, since the game was initially designed without plotscripting. Of course, since that's not an issue now, the world can be further fleshed out.

And also Teir One of the Bossrush at the endgame is near-complete. I still need someone to write music for the extra four teirs of the game's hidden boss rush. And of course, if James finds it spiffy enough, perhaps someone could write up some battle music based off Broaste's Theme, hmm?

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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...character names? Did anyone actually bother to rename the characters? And with Freki going to be playable, should they have legitimate names (though still changable, if the player saw fit)? I already have a backup list if need be, but I would like to hear what other people think. Or what they named them.
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Onlyoneinall
Bug finder




Joined: 16 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I named the Shaman - Sasha, Ranger - Link, Thief - Luke, and the healer/magic person - Mint
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The Wobbler




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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