The Value of General Discussion

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

General discussion is a good thing; it makes a community more personal, and gives a group of people who already know each other a chance to relax. The problem with it is that it HAS to be heavily moderated in order to have any value. A thread regarding issues with the site is worthwhile. A thread discussing games can be worthwhile, as long as it brings something more valuable to the discussion than just, "boy, game x was great am i rite?" "I LIKE CHEESE GUYS DO YOU?" is not a worthwhile thread in any way, and without strict moderation by dedicated and rational mods, threads like that become the norm (See the LOME forums for a very strong example of this).

"If you don't like it don't read them!" is most certainly not a valid response. Threads like these are BAD for the community. When there are more useless threads about cheese than worthwhile discussion threads, new users will be less likely to post here, and the community has slowed down so much that new users would be a very good thing. The more intelligent and creative new comers are less likely to want to join a community whose posting majority sounds like ten year old AOL chatters. When someone clicks the "All Journals" link and sees a clutter of worthlessness, he is less likely to want to become a part of it.

Of course, shit posts disguised as general discussion WILL draw new users, but not the kind we need. It will draw children who think that their every little thought is critically important to strangers on the internet, and people who think that it's perfectly acceptable to post without thinking. I don't want to see this. I want to see a community of people who come here to discuss and enjoy game making.

Inferior Minion · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject:

While you do have a vaild point, PHC, there are other ways to discourage that kind of posting. I agree that clicking "All Journals" will give new users a feel for community's gerneral discussion. However, when I click on "All Journals" right now, I see a lot of posts, many of which are using the journals the way I intended them to be used (your game journals, for instance) and I also see users testing out the system (Fen's "!!" and Eggie's "I MADE JOURNAL"). Certain threads are have more substance than others, but the one thing that stands out like a sore thumb on that page is "Do you like cheese?".

It's not the topic, or the fact that Linkmax made it an announcement. It's the fact that among all these posts, both worthwhile and arguably not needed, it's sitting on the top, with 17 responses and 2 pages of content.

Fen's "!!" has been siting on the bottom of the page since he created it. Eggie's "I MADE JOURNAL" was looked over a few times, even got a response, but it's still at the bottom of the page.

The community isn't only a reflection of the types of posts it produces, but also how those posts are received. Your excessive vendetta against the 'Do you like cheese?" thread is counterproductive. "We should be a community that doesn't encourage this kind of posting" then you continue posting in it, keeping it on top. Thanks to your public display, a thread that would have been ignored by most of the community is sitting at the top of the list with the highest reply count.

General discussion is a very broad topic. Discuss anything that pops into your head. Strict moderation is not a welcome mat inviting in discussion. It's telling users "Talk about anything...as long as I think it's worthwhile". It's subjective. To you, "Do you like cheese?" is a pointless topic. I'm inclined to agree, yet Linkmax felt the need to post it. The difference between the General Discussion structure you want and the General Discussion I've laid out is how the community deals with diversity.

I'm not going to delete or lock Linkmax's thread because I don't think it's worth discussing. I'm going to let the user bring up any topic that pops into their head. Now, in the case of Fen and Eggie, the threads were read, even responded to, but they didn't generate discussion. The community didn't pay attention to that type of post. At the end of the week, the not so worthwhile posts sift into obscurity. However, in this self moderated format, the user was able to post his thoughts without the big bad moderator slapping a lock on his thread, thereby label his ideas unworthy of discussion.

If you don't like the discussion, ignore it. You say it's not a valid form of way of handling the situation, but neither is attacking the user for posting his thoughts. A new user will judge the community based on which topics generate discussion as well as which topics were generated. It's more inviting to see a list where you're in control of your general discussion topics. The community might not respond to your threads, but at the same time, we won't discourage you from posting them.

Linkmax posted a topic which probably shouldn't generate discussion. Instead of belittling him by closing his topic and telling him his ideas aren't worth reading, I didn't respond. It's that simple. Today, his thread would have been right below MCW's "wow". Instead, you've made it stay up at the top and you've given it 2 pages worth of content.
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The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

I brought up valuable points in that thread that I wanted people to read. The initial post and all motivation behind what Linkmax has said has been really stupid, but I feel that it was a good place to make my point. What I wanted more than anything from that thread was for Linkmax to maybe consider for a second, "Hey, maybe I really don't need to post everything that comes into my head." And I'm certain that once the other LOME members start to get active again, threads like that will be everywhere. Have you read their forum? It makes my brain hurt and I don't understand how it's worth of space on your server.

Worhtlessness should not be ignored, it should be highlighted and discouraged by members of the community who care about the site. I can ignore those posts by Fen and MCW because they were clearly testing the new format. Linkmax had already done so.

There have been enormously long, worthless threads that kept going for ages in both Zantetsuken and the Paradox Lounge. Something similar is bound to happen here once this section gets more popular. Telling people that this is a bad thing before it really gets a chance to take off seems logical.

Guest · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject:

Um, did you not participate in the Princess Lana thread at CP?

Thought so. Now shut up, sit in the corner, and drink your juice. Otherwise, stop trying to be a control freak because NOW you sound like a hypocrite.

Linkmax · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 202 Location: Oly

If I posted everything that came into my mind, I would be banned from this place soo fast, and I do realize that the topic was stupid, so why don't you just drop it and quit being anal about almost every post that I make, lets just end it.

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

Squall · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:53 pm Post subject:

PS, PHC. If you get annoyed by cowards who flame annonymously, you can turn off annonymous posting in your journal settings.
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You got film in my video game!
You got video game in my film!

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

Sparrowhawk · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject:

Squall · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

Moogle1 · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject:

Linkmax · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 202 Location: Oly

Moogle1 · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject:

Good, bury the evidence.

Oh, hey, that wasn't the point, was it? The point was the death threat was there, which is why PHC went to your forums in the first place.
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Slime Salad :: Independent Game Design

The Wobbler · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2245

Linkmax · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 202 Location: Oly

I wasn't the guest, have the IP checked if you don't belive me.