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Discussing "Heart of the OHR"
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soj DID have a budget, I remember paying for the "CD" edition of it (which I never got, and somehow I'm the one adding sound effects to it).

Incidentally, Vikings HAS generated some income, which has gone into the purchase of the laptop used to continue work on it. My initial suspicions were correct about people not willing to pay for the game, but being willing to pay for artwork.

Freki is REALLY popular...
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Camdog




Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 606

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How exactly has vikings generated income? I thought all the artwork in the game was free already?
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am guessing people saw the artwork, and requested commissions, right?
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J_Taylor
The Self-Proclaimed King of Ketchup




Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Western NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Everybody here is SO critical...
_________________
Elemental: .75%
Heart of Darkness: 0% (crash)
The Mansion: .05%
Shattered Alliance: .05%

See a pattern forming? I do, dammit.
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded




Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fenrir-Lunaris wrote:
Soj DID have a budget, I remember paying for the "CD" edition of it (which I never got, and somehow I'm the one adding sound effects to it).


It seems me and Charbile's ruse to get someone else to finish the game for us worked!

Actually, there's a long story on why the CD never came out (which I still apologize for). It would have been great. It was just that a series of silly events and issues killed it off. And I'm not sure anyone but a couple of people would be interested in it anymore now that I would have the time to actually do it.

I spent about.. damn, it's been a while. It was either 300$ or 600$ making the game. I know 600$ was the budget I had ready to for it near the end, but I saved $TEXAS when that silly music guy pulled out.

The most obvious paid-for thing in Jade was the Jazz Man tracks, which I didn't even pay for exclusive use of! So don't be surprised if you hear any of his tracks in new games or elsewhere.

But yeah, as it stands, SoJ never got out of the red ink. I was almost considering paying (bribing) TMC to port SoJ to the XNA platform for Xbox Live Indie Games but I didn't want to bother with the GPL implications (and the fact that it'd have to sell a decent amount of copies to not lose money again)
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FyreWulff wrote:

But yeah, as it stands, SoJ never got out of the red ink. I was almost considering paying (bribing) TMC to port SoJ to the XNA platform for Xbox Live Indie Games but I didn't want to bother with the GPL implications (and the fact that it'd have to sell a decent amount of copies to not lose money again)


If we ever get the OHR portable enough to run on XNA, don't be surprised if we dual-license to LGPL or something like that.

I still have in the back of my mind that iPhone and Android ports might become a non-crazy option at some point in the future.

EDIT: further research shows that XNA port is waaaay more work than iPhone or Android ports
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded




Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hrm. Now that I actually check it again, it looks like there might not be any issue with a game running on GPL'd code on XNA - I swear I must have thought somewhere that making an XNA version would require using some Microsoft code that would not be GPL-able, but now that I looked at it again it would be possible to just distribute the source/project file without the data (although to make it useful for selling a game, you'd have to buy the XNA membership).

I might just bribe TMC into doing it after all. Or fund-bribe a small group of people into doing itt. Would attract a lot of attention if XNA developers could use the OHRRPGCE to make Xbox Indie Games
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NayusDante




Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would gladly donate at least $100 to the XNA port bounty.

Right now, the best that XNA has is the Roleplaying Game Starter Kit. It's a pain to work with and would require a total rewrite to make anything with the degree of polish that OHR has. The only true RPG on XBLIG is Breath of Death VII, and they don't want to license their engine for fears of an "RPG Maker effect." With the terrible games contests we have here, I'm pretty sure that we'd be unleashing the same beast, but if anyone hasn't seen the XBLIG marketplace, that's hardly an issue. Even a bad OHR game is better than half the stuff on there.

I'm pretty sure that you can still GPL the code. A lot of Microsoft example projects use a Microsoft permissive license, which basically states that you can do whatever you want with it assuming you claim copyright. That leads me to believe that there's not a lot of control over XNA code, and I know I've seen XNA projects GPLed on SourceForge and Google Code.


I would LOVE to spearhead an XNA port, but I am a TERRIBLE programmer. Nevertheless, I would definitely support such a project, and be willing to contribute all that I can, even if it means becoming a better programmer.

Just note that if there IS an XNA port, there should be a good example game to accompany it. Maybe Vikings, or Vikings 2, or something original. Just so that there's something good on the marketplace before everyone goes and submits something crappy.
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JSH357




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be interested in porting Motrya, since I was planning on making a deluxe version anyway. Granted I know nothing about XNA, but it'd probably be great for helping more games get publicity.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NayusDante wrote:
Just note that if there IS an XNA port, there should be a good example game to accompany it. Maybe Vikings, or Vikings 2, or something original. Just so that there's something good on the marketplace before everyone goes and submits something crappy.


If an XNA port is ever possible, it goes without saying that every good OHR game would work with it. (and every bad one too)

It wouldn't be a proper port if it only worked on a game-by-game basis.
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded




Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'd only be funding it if it worked with every game. If it only worked with Jade or GAME_X, you might as well rewrite the game itself from scratch for custom enhancements.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you would also have to make the engine "trial version aware". For those that don't know, XNA games on XBL have an 8 minute trial time limit before it'll boot you off the game (you can't do anything about it - it's enforced by the XNA sandbox). If creators had some way of the engine telling them that it's in trial mode, they could write a script to show an alternate menu that starts the player in the game in a more trial-friendly fashion.

And if people want to submit 'crappy' games.. well, it's their 100$.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are completely free games even possible on XNA?

Is there a minimum price? (like how the iPhone app store allows free, but enforces a minimum price of $0.99 so it is impossible to sell something for fifty cents)
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NayusDante




Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lowest price point on XNA is $1, or 80 MS points. To price a game at this level, it must be under 50Mb. I believe that the highest level is $10, or 800, but I could be mistaken. The maximum size for any game is 150Mb.

Completely free games are not possible, unless your game has less than 8 minutes of content. If your game can be completed before the trial timer runs out, then you could call it free. If for some reason you did not want to make money on your game, you could still put it up for purchase but not submit your tax forms. In that case, Microsoft holds the profits for you.
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded




Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the only way to make a free game is to make it beatable in less than 8 minutes.

Of course since it's XNA, you could just make a PC build and release it that way for free.. but you'd already have the existing PC version of the engine to do that with.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how bug a cut of that Microsoft keeps, and how much the developer gets?

Also, as I understand it, GPL does NOT forbid selling of GPL software, it just requires that the source is made available to anybody you distribute it to (regardless of whether you are giving it to them or selling it to them)

<thinking_out_loud>
Ideally, if this Xbox port thing ever does become a reality, I think we would want to set it up so people with their own account could XNA account could set up, build, and sell their own game, and then we could *also* set up one or more umbrella groups where we share the cost of one XNA account, and publish multiple games through it, with the person who sets up the account being responsible to turn over the earnings for each game to the respective game authors.

It is not my intention to personally earn ANY money off the OHR engine directly, but the idea of earning a little off of Wandering Hamster, Bell of Chaos, etc, seems appealing.
</thinking_out_loud>

EDIT: After researching a bit, I now realize that XNA can ONLY use .NET languages like C#, and that apparently has absolutely no support for C and C++. While we do have a reasonable long-term plan to work towards porting the OHR from FreeBasic to C++, we not have a plan to work on a .NET port.

The ideas I have floated about selling OHR games in such distribution channels still applies to iPhone/iOS (which is based on ObjectiveC but can run C++ code too) and Android (which is based on Java, but can run C++ code too)

Wii does do C/C++ code, but has an extremely open-source-unfriendly developer license, so that would have to be homebrew only

I don't know what PS3 has. Does PS3 even have an indy game market? Anybody here have one?
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