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Discussing "Heart of the OHR"
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Shadowiii
It's been real.




Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sh4d0ws wrote:
And I do know many decent RPGs have been made for the OHR recently. Keyword is recently. The OHR's notorious for not having many good games at all, aside from only 1 or 2 decent titles every blue moon. And honestly, I think the only reason It's gotten better games recently is because the community's been weeded down to only the most devoted developers. Nobody really left to make such atrocities as SUPER JARROD RPG or whatever it's called.


How is the OHR notorious for having "no good games at all"? Did you just phrase it wrong?

Because the OHR has a lot of good games. It just also has a lot of bad ones.

Saying that is about as dumb as saying "the Wii has no good games." Sure it does. Just because it has a lot of bad ones doesn't mean all the good ones no longer count. The NES and SNES had just as much crap, but we hail them as great systems.

Point being, I sure hope that was a typo. Raspberry!

Rya wrote:
Because I'd rather have it that a group of people work on the same game for 1-2 years and then release a complete, fully polished, old-school 2D RPG that is as good as Final Fantasy VI, than a group of people working on different games in a short amount of time and releasing either unpolished, incomplete, bugged or just really small games that can't compete with Final Fantasy VI (this is only an example).

I know contests seem to be needed to motivate people to release anything at all, but that doesn't change the fact that it'd be cooler if they could stay motivated without that. Especially because after any contest most games are dropped and not actually completed, if they haven't been completed during the contest.


An an ideal world, this is a great idea. But this isn't an ideal world. Very rarely do people work on a game that will probably never make them any money for over two years to make something. Yes, it does happen, and I applaude those who try. However, these are extremely rare.

Getting rid of contests isn't going to promote this "work your life off for this game," so I see no reason for you to dislike them. I really doubt that working on contests frequently drag people away from their "dream" project. I think it just promotes those who don't have time for large projects to be able to finish something good or great, and get that accomplishment of finishing.

Case in point: my entire OHR career. If I remember correctly, ever game I made except the Stop demo and Intolerance was made for some contest. Stop was my "FFIV" killer, but I wasn't able to do it (like most people can't). Because I did contests instead, I still got to make a lot of great/good games, even though I wasn't able to make such a huge game.

Point: Contests are fine, fiddlesticks on your theory.
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
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Joined: 15 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sh4d0ws wrote:
Wait. I don't get the argument. If a game (Crystal Chasers) looks like a puzzle game in screenshots, and there's been no evidence otherwise, Is it not safe to assume it is a puzzle game?


http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewgame.php?t=3447

Thanks for playing.

Granted, the playtesting thread didn't mention it, but if Rya checked in more than once every three months, he'd have a better idea of what's up.
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Sh4d0ws




Joined: 06 Nov 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The OHR's notorious for not having many good games at all


"No" and "Not Many" mean two different things. And It's very fair to say "Not Many" because the ratio of good to bad games does tip heavily in Bad Games' favor. However, the OHR does have an overwhelming game library built up for it, so to say "Not many" would still actually mean quite a few. And when I say notorious, I mean it in the same respect as the Wii. The Wii does have a lot of good games, but there are so many godawful ones that they're overshadowed, and thus the Wii is commonly seen as having mostly shitty games.

I didn't make a typo. You just misread/didn't really read what I typed.

Edit: @Moiogle I've never read or really paid attention to Crystal Chasers. I was under the impression that the game wasn't advertised correctly. Turns out I'm wrong, Rya's just ignorant. Sorry.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding one or two battle screenshots to the Crystal Chaser's download page is actually a really great idea.
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Moogle1
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sh4d0ws wrote:
"Not many" would still actually mean quite a few.

"Not many" and "quite a few" mean two different things.

Quote:
The Wii does have a lot of good games, but there are so many godawful ones that they're overshadowed, and thus the Wii is commonly seen as having mostly shitty games.

This is the case with every console ever. The number of bad games has no bearing on how many good games there are.

In short: "a lot of bad games" is completely different from "not many good games at all."
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Sh4d0ws




Joined: 06 Nov 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not many" and "quite a few" mean two different things.

That's only true if you take them out of context. If I say "ohr has a lot of good games and a lot of bad games" then it seems as if for every bad game, there's a good game, and that's not true. So in order to display the proper contrast when comparing the two, I used "Not many". I'm not speaking literally.

Quote:
This is the case with every console ever. The number of bad games has no bearing on how many good games there are.

Nope, and nobody said it did.
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Pepsi Ranger
Reality TV Host




Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 493
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rya wrote:
I didn't want to derail the contest thread....


I appreciate that. Thanks.
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JSH357




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pepsi Ranger wrote:
Rya wrote:
I didn't want to derail the contest thread....


I appreciate that. Thanks.


Best post in this thread, I lol'd.

Anyone whining about the lack of RPGs needs to stop whining and work on one. Newbie Power, Vampiducki and I are working on one right now that I pretty much guarantee most anyone who enjoy classic RPGs will like. Newbie linked to it, but you might have missed it, Rya:
http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3456

This game is coming soon. We're almost done with the first demo, and well in to the planning phases on the rest of the game. It has an epic soundtrack (that actually sounds like a professional soundtrack), great graphics, and fun surprises you'll have to wait and see about. It will also be showcasing several newer OHR features like slices/menus, only in ways that benefit RPGs instead of the "tech demos" the OP is complaining about. If you're whining more about how long it takes games to be COMPLETE, I can't help you. Even professional games sometimes have long development times. There are like 20 active OHR users, and it takes longer to make games solo than in giant companies. I'd say the amount of games we get is fairly impressive, especially if you look at how many some developers have completed. (Just look at Fenrir, Surlaw or RMZ's gamelists)

Also, I call BS on the claim that nobody is working on RPGs. Here are just a few, some of which look REALLY AWESOME, that I found in less than 5 minutes. Most of them were started before the Heart of the OHR contest even began.

http://www.castleparadox.com/viewjournaltopic.php?t=748
http://www.castleparadox.com/viewjournaltopic.php?t=786
http://www.castleparadox.com/viewjournaltopic.php?t=792
http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3736
http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3756
http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3725
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Sh4d0ws




Joined: 06 Nov 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should be noted that because of the series of bugs and problems I encountered, and because of how messily I wrote my scripts (Looking through them is just stressful.) Lightning Heroes is one of those unfinished OHR games. :S

I've started work on another game and It wont be finished in time for the contest, but anyways, yeah. Everybody's making games and none of the games look bad. I'd say if we sliced out all the experimental, joke, ultra-short, and newbie games, the OHR would be among the best in terms of general game quality.
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy




Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoon Weaver wrote:
But after choosing to both ignore New games AND ignore non-Rpgs how can you then be so critical of the games you don't play? You know nothing about them.

I'm not criticizing non-RPG games made with the OHRRPGCE to begin with. You should see my opening post as direct reply to what Pepsi Ranger wrote and not a thread opened to criticize non-RPGs.

I only gave my opinion which is that I'd like to see more good finished RPGs made with the OHRRPGCE and even if Slimes is good and finished, it's still not an RPG, so it's not a good counter-argument, or would you say it is?

Quote:
An an ideal world, this is a great idea. But this isn't an ideal world. Very rarely do people work on a game that will probably never make them any money for over two years to make something. Yes, it does happen, and I applaude those who try. However, these are extremely rare.

Yeah this is true, but what's wrong in wishing for it to happen more often?

Also when I said "I don't like contests" I didn't mean "There shouldn't be any contests" but rather "I don't want to join contests and usually don't like to play the games that got created during them because they are usually unfinished and won't be continued".
In fact I thought I mentioned that I think this contest in particular was a good idea somewhere?

Quote:
Granted, the playtesting thread didn't mention it, but if Rya checked in more than once every three months, he'd have a better idea of what's up.

Do you think non-OHRRPGCE users who just like to play 2D RPGs will check here more than every three months? Should they?

Quote:
I appreciate that. Thanks.

I was hoping for a more detailed reply from you. :-/

Quote:
Anyone whining about the lack of RPGs needs to stop whining and work on one.

I really hate this argument. What about people who just want to play something they enjoy? If I go to Blizzard forums and write down what could be improved with Starcraft 2, they say thanks for the ideas, and might even implement some of them. You won't see them saying "Well if you don't like our RTS, just make your own!" Why does it need to be different with indie games?
There might gamers that just wait for something fun being released, is it wrong for them to say their wishes out loud?

Thanks for the RPG links.
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JSH357




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but whining about it accomplishes nothing but clogging up the forums. We all know there are only 20 active OHR users, and thus fewer (crappy) games than there used to be; this isn't a new thing, and honestly the quality of the average OHR game has improved a lot since people started spending more time working on them instead of posting demos when there's 15 minutes of content. You've made OHR games yourself, so by posting about the lack of them instead of working on one, you are contributing to the "problem" the OP complains about.

It takes time to make good games; that's just something that must be accepted, especially since pretty much every OHR game has been no-budget.
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ajguy93




Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Location: texas.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: good old days Reply with quote

First off, I loved final fantasy and final fantasy 2. Not only where they well done, all around, but ff2 had an after-ending plot!I'm a procrastionator (sp?) and to take up the time I waste, RPGs are needed to fill the void. Anyway, you shou;dn't quit going here because something is bugged. (the gamelist) You should embrace it, just like people did with Mario, and thousands of other bugged and messed up titles. As for people making a non-parody, fun RPG, I'm trying to do that very thing. I am getting help, though. (and I'm not good at graphics, but whatever) Anyways, Don't give up on CS!
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSH357 wrote:
It takes time to make good games; that's just something that must be accepted, especially since pretty much every OHR game has been no-budget.


Except for Fat Frog.
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JSH357




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fenrir-Lunaris wrote:
JSH357 wrote:
It takes time to make good games; that's just something that must be accepted, especially since pretty much every OHR game has been no-budget.


Except for Fat Frog.


I know SOJ had a budget. So does Motrya.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
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Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have payed (very small) amounts of money for a few of the midi tracks in Wandering Hamster, so I guess that one is not no-budget either.
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