Castle Paradox

FyreWulff · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject:

See, that's the part where I think someone got carried away. It's possible and known that the Jews wandered the desert for a long time, however I don't think they got magical food raining on them. I think they found oasis that they could grow crops out of. Water from rock could have just meant that Moses was good at finding springs.

Much like my interpretation of the plagues is that some of them could have happened -since- Moses was a farmer, so he would know exactly when the spring rains would come and make frogs de-hibernate. A king wouldn't have or need that knowledge, so he would be amazed if Moses was able to predict it. The others are embellishments or made up.

Moogle1 · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject:

How is any of that more far-fetched than resurrection? I mean, they're all miracles. How is one more plausible than another?

If you don't believe the story as written, that's one thing, but substituting your own interpretation of the facts makes very little sense. I'm interested to learn your criteria for deciding what parts of a millenia-old document are true and how you came up with your substituted versions of events. I'm even more interested in hearing what you think the value is of removing God from the Bible. It's much easier simply to disregard it as untrue.

Also, Moses wasn't a farmer. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Technically, he spent "forty years" helping Jethro shepherd. This doesn't make him an expert on frogs.
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FyreWulff · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject:

You'll have to remember that I don't believe g*d exists in the first place.

But hell, if the Mormons and JWs can selectively add and remove parts to it, and the Catholics add and remove parts to it, and even different translations change entire meanings of passages, my interpretations are a drop in a sea of disagreement.

My complete guess is that a couple of the plagues were good luck and guessing, and a bunch of others (like water into blood) are exaggerations of something that happened or completely made up. Or they happened over time and the Pharoah was using Moses as a scapegoat to get him out of the area (the plausible realistic ones anyway)

Moogle1 · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject:

Then why bother believing those stories at all? I still have to ask what the point is of trying to remove God from the Bible. Like I said, it's much easier to regard it as fiction. Your interpretations are no more likely.
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msw188 · Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1041

I think the issue is that we know certain parts of the Bible are NOT just made up, and that real things did happen. We know historically that some cat named Jesus went around and got a handful of Jews riled up. We also have good reason to believe that something akin to the Exodus took place.

All I'm saying is that taking the Bible as a mixture of fables/parables in addition to some distortions of real events is not particularly unreasonable, and regarding something as fiction is not always easier than regarding it as a distortion.
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Moogle1 · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject:

FyreWulff · Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject:

I'm not removing g*d from the bible. In this case I view him as more of a metaphor of the human spirit.

All I'm saying is that the Bible is a human creation, and even if I believed in g*d I would still not say he wrote it. It's pretty much the longest fanfic out there, but it has messages and real events scattered within it to string it all together.

Also I like to think of Jesus as hippie-prime

But I may be biased since I identified as a jew before this, and the torah and so one was passed down orally through the ages before it could be reproduced quickly and cheaply. There are no doubts there that it's a man-made account of events that happened.

Shadowiii · **It's been real.** Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 2460

I believe in God. I believe in the Bible, but don't take it literally. I believe in evolution and that the earth is really old. I think a majority of the old testament shouldn't be taken literally, somewhat similar to what Fyre has said though I disagree on a few key points. However, it is certainly possible and probably true that stuff was lost in translation along the way.
I'm a very zealous church-goer but try to keep an open mind. I'm a firm believer that people need to do their best to understand what they believe, and in doing so that will help them understand other's interpretations of the same religious texts (specifically the Bible, among others).
I also think debating God on the internet is stupid and usually just results in people getting riled up when in the end nothing is accomplished anyway. So the point of this thread is kinda retarded.
But then I commented on it so what does that make me.
Oops.
Smokin'

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AJHunter · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:01 am Post subject:

AJHunter · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:02 am Post subject:

AJHunter · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:08 am Post subject:

AJHunter · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:22 am Post subject:

AJHunter · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:33 am Post subject:

ShakeyAir · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 93

These conversations never get anywhere.. haha.

But just so long as no one's trying to change anyone's mind, I suppose I'm alright with it and I'll participate.

I, myself, am not religious. I find it hard to believe that there is some omnipotent, omniscient being out there, and so much harder to believe that if there is one, he gives 2 sh*ts about any of us.

That being said, finding religion has helped a lot of people i know through hard times, (normal religions, I don't know any cultists) some of whom who were on their way to... leave... for lack of a better term. I think the judeo-christian concept of god originated from the need of people with problems to believe that there is some force out there that can help them, but most of all, cares.

Granted, people have used religion as a basis for some terrible, terrible things. But that is the fault of people, not the construct of the beliefs.

So, yeah, I'm an atheist. But i'm never gonna tell anyone their belief is wrong. If it's all real, then cool.

If it's not, and this is addressed to all you religious-types: If you died and there was nothing, or something totally different than heaven/hell/whatever... would you be disappointed looking back on all the 'worthless' things you did? I mean, you'd be disappointed that it wasn't real, to be sure. But thinking of what religion has done for you or the ways its made you feel, the stuff its gotten you through, etc, etc.

I guess what I mean is, I think religion is worthwhile whether its real or not. As an atheist I think all you get from life is.. it. Haha. And if religion makes life better, I don't see why it matters if its real or not.

msw188 · Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1041

I know of people who believe the Holocaust did not occur. These people, like people who do not believe that Jesus even existed, are much more unreasonable than people who try to make sense of ancient myths.

The case of the Bible is acute because there are certain historical truths involved with a significant portion of the text, which most of the people in discussion here are familiar with. For this reason, an intelligent person cannot discount the entire book as fiction at once. Picking out which events are real and fake is a difficult task. It may be easier (more worthwhile) to notice that the VAST MAJORITY of the book isessentially a historical distortion of basically real events.

All of this pre-supposes that the person in question would prefer to fall back on faith as little as possible. Naturally if we allow faith to be a factor, picking out which events are real and fake becomes incredibly easy.
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My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161

This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew:
www.euphonicbrew.com