Castle Paradox

[TwinHamster]

[BlastedEarth]

oh my god. so this is my concept of god. a qualia. it's harsh to be back in the loop.
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[Bagne]

[BlastedEarth]

Everything you say makes sense and i can't say that they look wrong. Reading about that qualia just got me so confused. Let's see, configurations, definitions...

Is it that knowledge is like leaving markers in an existing place for reference? Like there is a universal value of singularity... The idea of being one, is a universal truth. Like a person can recognize one and have a bunch of thought about it and may even call it "two" or "three" or "douvargajens" or "duckbilled-dinosaur", it doesn't really matter because something singular will remain singular if it has the absence of another... and intelligent beings are like george columbuses of thought, naming them so they could discuss, learn and utilize them for the betterness or even evil...

could it be that god is a configuration that is true but is beyond what we know for now? that god is this uncharted thought somewhere and it is what it is? but since we are looking for the god concept it has to match what we are looking for... if we find it, could it really be god? or is it just something that we have been searching for in a long time and somewhere along the search it just stops being god? like for all we know we must have killed god somewhere in history... or much sad, in our own lives?

---> let's say im looking for a person named john. and he isnt john lennon or john julius or john smith or any other john. he is a specific john , one that i know based on facts about him. there are billions of johns in the world but im only looking for a certain john which i need something from. this john is really important because let's say he's going to tell me who my parents are, supposed i dont know who my parents are... and i dont know if this certain john is alive or someone must have killed him somewhere or he must have changed his name into greg and is hiding away from the law or people call him somethng else for some valid reason, it would be much harder for me to find him...
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So many ideas, so little focus. Monk spirit please lend me your power!

[ShakeyAir]

as infants, our every need is provided for. we have a mother and a father (EDIT: or just mother, or just father, or other caretaker.)constantly overlooking us, protecting us, keeping us safe. there is great warmth knowing that someone bigger and more powerful than you loves you with all their heart.

then we age. we realize that our parents are not infallible, they make human mistakes just as we do. we spend increased time away from them and cannot rely on them continuing to protect us. its a natural part of growing up, but it leaves a scary void where there used to be warmth and safety.

that is why it feels so natural for many people to rely on a god, and, i believe, why the concept was dreamt up at all.

[jabbercat]

[Spoonweaver]

[Camdog]

Not to nitpick, but I'm guessing the 3 major religions you're referring to are Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, which I don't think is quite right. Judaism certainly has a lot of adherents, but Hinduism and Buddhism each have more.

[Bagne]

World religions aren't so different.
I actually believe they are all the same religion.

Buddhism and Hinduism do have a concept of God - at least, they both have teachings about an all-uniting force that supersedes all things.

Also, some Christian practices can be more polytheistic than commonly expected. There are Christian communities who pray to different saints according to their specific needs, just as a Hindu or ancient Roman would pray to a member of their pantheon of Gods.
Look at how the Virgin Mary is regarded in some places in Europe: sometimes it can seem that she's more central to the religion than Jesus.

I think this goes to show how 2000 years of human history can transform a religion's beliefs and practices into something completely different. However, if you ignore all the human noise and focus on the original religious teachings, they're identical. Also, the historical context of each of these religions vary greatly. While the spiritual concepts in these religions remain the same, it would be natural to expect the social teachings of these religions to vary accordingly.
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[Camdog]

I don't think this is true at all. It boils down to more than just monotheism vs. polytheism. For example, Christianity is concerned with doing the right thing in life to achieve closeness with God, or heaven, in the afterlife. Some forms of Buddhism believe the purpose of life is to escape the cycle of karma, which would mean they would not be reborn and would cease to exist.

Those beliefs alone seem hard to reconcile, and that's just off the top of my head. I think there are tremendous differences between a lot of religions.

[Bob the Hamster]

It might be interesting to try and list things that all religions have in common, and then to see if we can find any examples of religions who are exceptions.

I would suggest:

* all religions add certainty to an otherwise unknowable future
* all religions explain things that don't have any other obvious explanation
* all religions guide people on how they should act

I said "all" but can we think of any examples where I am wrong? Can anybody think of any possible things that all religions might have in common?

[jabbercat]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam I kind of lumped together. But nearly all of the major religions in the world, whether monotheistic or polytheistic have the idea of one superior god, which is the originator of creation. The Egyptions had Ra, the Hindus have Brahman, the Romans had Jupitor, and ect. The idea of a single all-powerful entity is pretty universal, across all the continents and times.
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[Bob the Hamster]

I am gonna disagree on that. I have read enough Greek and Norse mythology to say that neither Zeus not Odin were always considered to be substantially superior to the other gods. Sure, they were the "leaders" but they were far from all powerful. Also, both of those mythologies have separate creator dieties (Uranus and Ymir*) who were not all-powerful or all-knowing, just very big and very old.

I have read some norse myths that make Odin out to be a very monotheistic god, but those were written down by Edda.

We should also consider the wide variety of Animist religions, many of which worship spirits or ancestors without identifying any particular one as central, and others which worship deities who are very specifically local.

It is also hard to find animists who have never met a christian missionary, and spiritual ideas often get borrowed from one religion and incorporated into others.

(* calling Ymir a creator is a gross oversimplification. primeval cows are involved)

[jabbercat]

Yeah, upon examination I was definately wrong to lump Jupiter in.

Animist religions are definately worth noting. Isn't the idea behind those that the spirits are in transit to somewhere? I unfortunately don't know a great deal about them. Religious ideas do get mixed, but that generally takes centuries doesn't it? Christian mission is a relatively new thing if I recall correctly.
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[Bagne]

I only really had the modern world religions in mind.

I'm not keen on trying to reconcile the ancient religions (Greek, Egyptian etc), with modern religion. Few, if any, of them have any surviving record of their origins. This makes comparison practically impossible. If these religions are indeed divinely inspired, I'd like to be able to filter the man-made teachings from the original teachings.

So, for purposes of my claim, I was hoping to discuss religion as something that started with a "divine teacher", prophet, apostle, avatar, manifestation of God - whatever term you wish to use. I realize that in doing this I'm narrowing my definition of religion. I am excluding moral philosophies like Confucianism as Confucius never made any claims of prophethood. Other historical figures, like Buddha, Jesus or Baha'u'llah all made claims of divinity or spiritual authority, presented teachings of enormous influence and suffered persecution (or even martyrdom) for their claims. I would consider them as candidate prophets. In these cases, comparison is considerably easier.

So ... of religions that fit the above description, I find these things in common:

1) All religions are strongly grounded in spiritual teachings. They entreat us to develop a strong moral character - virtues like compassion, selfless service, kindness, detachment from worldly affairs, forgiveness etc. Through obedience to their teachings, it is possible to undergo some form of positive transformation, "rebirth", or redemption.

2) All religions teach that our existence is essentially spiritual. Our current physical form is a small stage in a grander scheme.

3) All of the world religions anticipate a future coming of a prophet, each using a different name:
Most Christians expect the return of Christ, many Buddhists expect the coming of the Maitreya, some Muslims expect the Qa'im and all Muslims expect the return of Christ. Jews are expecting the coming Messiah. Zoroastrians expect a redeemer.
If indeed all the world religions are the same - it would make sense that they all anticipate one another, or all anticipate the same future religion, or both.

4) Many (and possibly all) associate this prophet's future arrival with an age of peace and enlightenment:
Christians are anticipating the Kingdom of God on Earth with one "Shepard" and one "Fold"
Jews expect the world leaders to look to the Messiah for guidance.
The Meitreya is supposed to unite the Earth in peace.
Hindism expects a coming "golden age" of enlightenment.
I've read a Zoroastrian reference to a coming "world redeemer"
I've heard of Native American oral traditions where there is a gathering of the world's people for peace.

5) All the world religions all teach about one God, universal force, or entity that supersedes all things.

I don't think the particulars of heaven, karma or what-have-you are very significant. Most of those teachings are very heavily layered in metaphor.
Rebirth is a concept both in Buddhism and Christianity, the only difference is that Buddhists interpret the term literally. Differences in this kind of interpretation can exist within a single religion, let alone many.
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