Castle Paradox

[Camdog]

I'm glad Walthros got selected for this month's bookclub meeting. It was pretty much the first OHR game I played that I actually enjoyed, and replaying was just as enjoyable of an experience as the first time through.

There's a lot to talk about for this game, so I'm going to break up my topics by post and add new thoughts to the discussion intermittently. The first thing I'd like to talk about is the most obvious: the setting.

The setting, for me, is pretty much the reason to play this game. Despite poor graphics, mediocre gameplay, and a plot full of holes (hopefully we'll get to all of those later), Walthros remains extremely compelling, and I'm impressed with that. Creating a fantasy world from the ground up is no easy task, and so most people just borrow the shit out of Tolkien. PHC's use of less 'serious' fantasy races like anthropomorphic floating fish and hyperactive walruses lends a comic touch that I feel like a lot fantasy and RPGs seem to lack (excuding stupid anime-style humor, which I basically hate). The dinosaur triple scenes were especially great. ("I like micro! He always brings me something when he comes back from trips.")

That said, the huge amount of races made a lot of them feel tacked on. I mean, what are the Ralz besides pirates? We know basically nothing about them other than that. They're not developed in the slightest. Couldn't they just as easily have been a faction of seals (which would have afforded the opportunity to develop the seals more)? In fact, all the races are basically assigned a few different defining characteristics and its usually left at that. I guess that's the price you pay for creating racesthat society has no predefined notions about.

Which leads me to ask, what do you guys think the advantages/disadvantages of creating a brand new mythology are, as opposed to using fantasy conventions that are immediately recognizable? The latter seems lazy, but I think there's a legitimate reason to stick with orcs and goblins if the story you're telling is shorter than War and Peace.

<mega nerd>

I'm proud to say I figured out a way to win the supposedly unbeatable battle between the purple mice and the apes. Anybody else manage that?

</mega nerd>

More to come...

[The Wobbler]

[Rinku]

I think creating a new fantasy world can work with shorter stories/games/etc. too. If anything it works better, because I hate when the world is over-explained (as it is in Lord of the Rings or Star Trek). The entire point of fantasy is to give the player a feeling of being in a different but believable world, and over-explaining that world makes it feel less fantastic. I'm not saying the author should just make things up, the world should ideally be fully realized in the author's head, but not every detail of it needs to go into the story, only the details relevant to the story.

I don't remember much about Walthros so I won't say how this applies to that game. Though it'd be funny to imagine what a 3D Walthros remake would look like (i.e. how those races actually look like close up).
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Tower Defense Game

[The Wobbler]

[Camdog]

[The Wobbler]

[Camdog]

Hey everybody. Sorry I dropped the ball on this, but I've been busy with holidays (probably like most of you), and minor illness (hopefully not like you). Anyway, I'd like to continue the conversation on Walthros and hold off for a bit on choosing another book club selection, since the discussion fell right in the middle of Christmas and I fear that cut the conversation short. It seems a shame that one of the best games for the OHR would only generate a 5 reply discussion. So, everyone should reread what's been said and post their thoughts.

I'll go ahead and add some additional thoughts I've had, too... A lot of people critisized Walthros when it came out for mediocre gameplay. It's true that none of the gameplay is particularly groundbreaking, but I still remember the moment I got the Sky Flyer as being extremely compelling. I immediately broke from the plot for a moment and visited every place I could find. I scored a frozen sword for Scottie and a super ring for Dinosaur Micro, and was soon beating serious ass with both of their double attack techniques, which was a lot of fun. But, more than that, I was just really enjoying exploring the world.

I mention this in the context of the "mediocre gameplay" critisisms because it seems to me that this type of gameplay is inexorably linked to the story. In fact, the story is the source of this type of gameplay. I feel like this is what makes Walthros's gameplay good despite the fact that it's nothing new from a technical standpoint. It's still fun to experience the same way a new book is fun to read, despite the fact that each book is read in the same way. Indeed, it is this aspect of an RPGs gameplay that I think has been responsible for the genre's popularity, despite it's tendancy to be plagued by otherwise boring game play.

So what do you guys think? I know there have been many discussions on this board about which is more important: story or gameplay? But I think, in a way, story is gameplay. Is a story that encourages exploration enough for you to slog through a boring combat system? Is this part of the game more important than the more traditional "game" part of an RPG?

[Onlyoneinall]

I have yet to complete the game (I'm currently stuck past the City. I can't seem to find Dr Mu's place for some reason, or access the door to get to the White Tower), but just so this isn't completely dead, I thought I would comment that the game dialouge seems to be pretty strong so far, so the story is pretty gold. The classical pieces for the towns are an interesting choice, the music seems good overall. I can't say much more yet, but Super Walrus Man is probably the most interesting character at this point.
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http://www.castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=750 Bloodlust Demo 1.00

[Joe Man]

oh damn I totally forgot to finish it
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"Everyone has 200,000 bad drawings in them, the sooner you get them out the better."
~Charles Martin Jones

Last edited by Joe Man on Fri Dec 13, 1957 1:21 am; edited 2,892 time in total

[J.A.R.S.]

PHC:
I don't think the reason why people don't play the game is because it is about new mythology. I think it is the fish idea. There are several original concepts earth-driven that would've caught up more attention than fishes. Although some can be violent, fishes can refer to "peaceful" and "natural" which sorta screws the usual rpg plot in some way. The colors of most fishes will either remind you about fishing or the little mermaid. The idea was good in that it was an original stretch (I can't say for the story since I haven't played this game in years and don't even remotely remember any of it) but based on this very original choice of creature lore, the game would have to pack up sturdy story and design elements which, based on the first post of this thread, it didn't have :S
However, I think that, although harder to master, the creation of a new fantasy universe wields better results than the mere re-use of tolkien's or Vance's lore. I personally try to join up both (use of cultural mythology alongside new creations) mainly because I am a coward who's affraid of failing to attract people to my games if the setting was 100% original, which if course denies the possibility of 100% original and 100% wow-factor. If anything, it seems as though Walthros had that.

[The Wobbler]

[J.A.R.S.]

[The Wobbler]

[Battleblaze]

Ah Walthors. It was one of the first games I ever downloaded. Before I knew PHC or anyone really.

I'd never really played OHR games or any RPGs before.

Walthros despite obvios graphical...stuff..actually kept my attention long enough. And it was easy enough to play without being a breeze (at least 4 a first time RPG guy).

Although the graphicworld seemed simple, the story had this odd lure to it...It was a question that I had.

How will the world be saved by bringing the crystals toghether...when the world will destroyed at the same time? The whole idea of the thing kept me going. And being in a new land with new people every now and then kept things cool.

But when I got to the red mouse land or whatever the damn mice and their machien guns (wtf unfair) pounded foolish bob and his wee sword in to the ground...Screwed I was

I think I'll download it again just to play. And figure it out NOBODY RUIN THE END 4 ME.

I think simply the magic of Walthros is, in the early rather shitty days of OHR, a graphically mediocre game manged to muster a decent emotional response form its players. Which is what any artist is going for.
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Indy OHR! and National OHR Month Contest going on now!

"Aeth calls PHC an anti-semite; PHC blames anti-semitism"
-squall

[Moogle1]