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Some things I'd like to see
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Gizmog1
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Joined: 05 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:05 am    Post subject: Some things I'd like to see Reply with quote

1. Quicker approval (or at least commentary!) on game reviews. I've had 3 reviews in the pile for almost 5 days now, and haven't heard so much as a word back on them. Uncy used to approve them, but I don't think he can anymore. Is there anyone on staff to do it? I'd volunteer if no one else wants to, or if we can't find a better volunteer.

2. I think it'd be interesting to make a gamelist display option "By Rank", listing them in order of their average rating, average review, or the average of the two put together. It'd also be nice if games were arranged by their actual scores, instead of a 4.5 with 15 votes being out ranked by a 4.3 with 20 votes, which I think is what it does now.

3. I'd really like to have the option to click on a person's name, and see all their reviews and all their games. I think we had it before, and took it out for some unknown reason shortly after the "hackers" incident. Isn't there some way to make it secure?

4. And I know you're probably tired of hearing it, but I'd like to have the General Discussion forum reopened. The community would greatly benefit from a place to sit and talk and get to know one another in a social environment. It'd also help increase productivity I feel, as there'd be an audience, and a more receptive forum for discussing games. You can't tell me we're a game design forum, when we've got crazy specific forums for Rangarok Online, Maple Story, and god only knows what else, and I really fail to see how opening it could hurt.
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Inferior Minion
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Joined: 03 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gizmog1 wrote:
1. Quicker approval (or at least commentary!) on game reviews. I've had 3 reviews in the pile for almost 5 days now, and haven't heard so much as a word back on them. Uncy used to approve them, but I don't think he can anymore. Is there anyone on staff to do it? I'd volunteer if no one else wants to, or if we can't find a better volunteer.


Last I checked, Uncommon and CN were still able to accept reviews. In all honesty, I'm not sure what happened to CN. He started reviewing games by request, but I have a feeling that, like me, school has finally caught up with him and he's enthralled in a heavier load than he expected.

Gizmog1 wrote:
2. I think it'd be interesting to make a gamelist display option "By Rank", listing them in order of their average rating, average review, or the average of the two put together. It'd also be nice if games were arranged by their actual scores, instead of a 4.5 with 15 votes being out ranked by a 4.3 with 20 votes, which I think is what it does now.


A "Sort by Rank" option is definitely going to appear in the gamelist. School is coming to an end, and as such, all assignments are suddenly due. 5 assignments due in the next 5 days, 2 on Tuesday. Quick fixes like the game rating math happen while I take a short break from homework. The new features I want to implement are slowly being worked on, but have taken a back seat to not failing Raspberry!

Gizmog1 wrote:
3. I'd really like to have the option to click on a person's name, and see all their reviews and all their games. I think we had it before, and took it out for some unknown reason shortly after the "hackers" incident. Isn't there some way to make it secure?


It's simply a matter of re-hacking the phpBB code to add in a few more columns in the user profiles. The only reason I've held off on this is because it involves altering phpBB code, and I'll have to dig through the old code to grab my alterations.

Gizmog1 wrote:
4. And I know you're probably tired of hearing it, but I'd like to have the General Discussion forum reopened. The community would greatly benefit from a place to sit and talk and get to know one another in a social environment. It'd also help increase productivity I feel, as there'd be an audience, and a more receptive forum for discussing games. You can't tell me we're a game design forum, when we've got crazy specific forums for Rangarok Online, Maple Story, and god only knows what else, and I really fail to see how opening it could hurt.


Crazy specific forums which are hidden from the average user's display. These Usergroup forums hardly get any use as it is and I deleted all hidden forums which hadn't received any posts since 2004. I don't see how CP could benefit from a General Discussion forum. Every user and every member of CP's administration has a different definition of acceptable General Discussion. Attempting to moderate it is asking for trouble. The stress of determining when a thread is unacceptable and the scrutiny that follows locking said threads for being the Nazi Moderator that didn't get the joke has claimed more than one Administrator.

Fact of the matter is your idea of a General Discussion's usage doesn't match mine. However, I can only enforce it given my preconcieved view of how it should be used, which makes me out as more of an asshole than I want to be labeled as. This, in turn, leads to a lax of moderation because we let things slide when they should have been stopped within minutes of reading the first post. The result is Paradox Lounge and, quite frankly, I don't see what benefit a General Discussion forum adds given the introduction of the journals.

The power is in your hands there and administration will only step in when you violate the ToS.
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Uncommon
His legend will never die




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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inferior Minion wrote:
Last I checked, Uncommon and CN were still able to accept reviews.

After the the index page was changed after the hacker incident, I no longer have a link to accept reviews from. Also, seeing how I'm not officially a member of the CP staff anyway. Not saying I wouldn't accept reviews were I able, only that you guys should stay on the ball with your own stuff.
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Flamer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inferior Minion wrote:
Gizmog1 wrote:
4. And I know you're probably tired of hearing it, but I'd like to have the General Discussion forum reopened. The community would greatly benefit from a place to sit and talk and get to know one another in a social environment. It'd also help increase productivity I feel, as there'd be an audience, and a more receptive forum for discussing games. You can't tell me we're a game design forum, when we've got crazy specific forums for Rangarok Online, Maple Story, and god only knows what else, and I really fail to see how opening it could hurt.


Crazy specific forums which are hidden from the average user's display. These Usergroup forums hardly get any use as it is and I deleted all hidden forums which hadn't received any posts since 2004. I don't see how CP could benefit from a General Discussion forum. Every user and every member of CP's administration has a different definition of acceptable General Discussion. Attempting to moderate it is asking for trouble. The stress of determining when a thread is unacceptable and the scrutiny that follows locking said threads for being the Nazi Moderator that didn't get the joke has claimed more than one Administrator.

Fact of the matter is your idea of a General Discussion's usage doesn't match mine. However, I can only enforce it given my preconcieved view of how it should be used, which makes me out as more of an asshole than I want to be labeled as. This, in turn, leads to a lax of moderation because we let things slide when they should have been stopped within minutes of reading the first post. The result is Paradox Lounge and, quite frankly, I don't see what benefit a General Discussion forum adds given the introduction of the journals.

The power is in your hands there and administration will only step in when you violate the ToS.
there is the journal system, where one can moderate it by themselves and people can choose whether to visit them and such as well
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Camdog




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inferior Minion wrote:
Fact of the matter is your idea of a General Discussion's usage doesn't match mine. However, I can only enforce it given my preconcieved view of how it should be used, which makes me out as more of an asshole than I want to be labeled as. This, in turn, leads to a lax of moderation because we let things slide when they should have been stopped within minutes of reading the first post. The result is Paradox Lounge and, quite frankly, I don't see what benefit a General Discussion forum adds given the introduction of the journals.


I don't see how the addition of the journals in any way affects the need for a general discussion area. Journal posts are for topics relating to the author of the journal (ie game progress, personal stuff, etc) not for general, non-OHR related discussion.

If I want to post a topic of discussion intended for the OHR community, but not directly related to the OHR, a journal would be the last place to do it. There's no way all of the community would read the topic, or even realize it had been posted. Likewise, I'm not going to look at everyone's journal in the hope of finding general discussion.

I have to agree with Gizmog. I think a general discussion forum would fill a void in the community that none of the other functions of this site fill. I know this is your site IM (and you do a great job with it), and I realize you don't want to deal with the hassle of moderating a general discussion form, but why not delegate the responsibilites of moderating to someone else, or just leave it (and only it) unmoderated?
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Iblis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Journal posts are for topics relating to the author of the journal (ie game progress, personal stuff, etc) not for general, non-OHR related discussion.


Actually the journal posts can be about whatever the author wants. Journals belong to the author, that means they can post anything that they like.

It really seems like your problem is that they're called "journals" and you have a particular purpose in mind because of that term. There's no reason to limit the journals to personal stuff or "here's what I did today" kinds of posts. It's really just a mini-forum that you have some measure of authority over, you can post whatever you want there as long as it doesn't violate the rules.
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SilentAngel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Camdog, thats what the journals are for - general discussion in the main one as well as game-related discussion in the related game journal. It's in your power alone to deal with who or what may be posted in said journals - you're the boss of them. However, with a General Discussion board, it turns into a mass of spam, trolling and flaming.
You have said "why not delegate this to someone else or leave it unmoderated?" There are a couple of problems with this:

1) If someone moderates it, and they lock a topic for it being offensive/spam/whatever and warn or ban the user (depending on the case + the user's "track record"), a backlash of complaints and flames are directed at the moderator because they were doing their job. This is why IM said that it claimed more than one admin, because the same thing happened - they did their job, person got pissy about it and started flaming the "Nazi Moderator/Admin" and brought their friends into it. In the end the moderator can't use their power to lock pointless or offensive threads because people will just bitch about it. Hence they thought "Why bother being an admin, it just means that I end up with pointless stress and I'm not allowed to use my power to stop it?" So they give up their power.

2) No moderation whatsoever is even worse. If there is no moderator at all, it just turns that board into a haven for, you guessed it, trolling/flaming/spam. And many users on CP will just give up and leave the place, never to return. The users of CP are real people, and they do have feelings. If there is no moderation, that board will just be a "vent-dump" for people bitching about others, and it will reflect the rest of the site, meaning that new users will be discouraged from even joining here. They will think "Why should I join a site where everyone are arseholes to each other, when I might be their next victim for not being sycophanic to their views?"

Well, that's just my $0.02.

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Gizmog1
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silent: Your two cents are Australian, and clearly do not count.

Everyone else, especially the guy with the white Teddy Bear Kitty Cat thingy Avatar: My problem is, that most users, particularly new ones, probably don't pay any damn attention to journals, or even know there's a site outside of the forum. If we had General Discussion on the forum, we could at least have a place where everyone could come, and learn about the site and games and whatnot, and it'd be a more open environment. You wouldn't have to worry about say, me banning Silent from the discussion because I loathe her, as it'd be a kind of open thing, where people would have to learn to check their hatreds at the door. I personally don't think we'd have any moderation problem, especially if we had any moderators with backbone, instead of the (Who shall remain nameless) Spineless wimps and whiny japs, who fold under any kind of peer pressure. I'm sure they'll all drink, and smoke, and jump off bridges before long.
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Mike Caron
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ignore the Journals, simply because they're too scattered. There's X journals, with Y threads in each. I don't have time or patience to go through XY threads, when we could have them all concentrated in one area.
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Iblis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't have time or patience to go through XY threads, when we could have them all concentrated in one area.


They ARE concentrated all in one area. Just click the "all journals" link and you can see all of the journal posts. Also they don't really get a huge number of posts anyway, less posts than the forums do, most days.
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Gizmog1
Don't Lurk In The Bushes!




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the more reason to fuck that noise, and give us a forum. Why is it that IM never quite gives us what we ask for, but always kind of gives us a shift around? Like, instead of letting Mods post on the secret Admin forums, and having a say in any policy, he gives us a mod forum which next to no one visits. Instead of giving us any kind of actual rules, he gives us a fuck around of rules to please his ISP, so he can't get in trouble if we post Kiddy Porn. And now, instead of a General Discussion forum where people'd see it, and use it, and enjoy it, he gives us a journal system semi-squirreled away, which isn't used very heavily, and which is supposed to be self moderating, but I don't think that part even works. If I asked for a cherry tree, he'd probably bake me an apple pie.
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TMC
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have complaints about the moderation on the journals?
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Gizmog1
Don't Lurk In The Bushes!




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, but I think it makes it a lot less than a general discussion forum. You have to worry about playing by 80 or 90 different people's rules, instead of just one man's on a central forum. I have no complaints thus far with Journal Moderation, except that I don't remember whether or not it ACTUALLY ever got implemented.
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Camdog




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iblis wrote:
They ARE concentrated all in one area. Just click the "all journals" link and you can see all of the journal posts. Also they don't really get a huge number of posts anyway, less posts than the forums do, most days.


Oh snap, I didn't even realize you could do that. That kind of proves my point, though. I never check out the journals looking for discussion because, lets face it, the term 'journal' implies writings specifically related to the author, not general discussion. Besides, if we're using the journals as general discussion, shouldn't we stop calling them journals and, I dunno, start calling them castle paradox lounge?

SilentAngel wrote:
2) No moderation whatsoever is even worse. If there is no moderator at all, it just turns that board into a haven for, you guessed it, trolling/flaming/spam. And many users on CP will just give up and leave the place, never to return. The users of CP are real people, and they do have feelings. If there is no moderation, that board will just be a "vent-dump" for people bitching about others, and it will reflect the rest of the site, meaning that new users will be discouraged from even joining here. They will think "Why should I join a site where everyone are arseholes to each other, when I might be their next victim for not being sycophanic to their views?"


I don't really see this as being a big deal, honestly. I remember when Paradox Lounge was open, there was all kinds of discussion, ranging from informative/interesting to people bitching at each other, and I was fine with that. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't care if people are arguing with each other, I still feel we'd gain more in the long run if we had a centralized place for non-OHR discussion. That would build the community, not take away from it. The lounge was one of my favorite places back in the day.
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Inferior Minion
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gizmog wrote:
I personally don't think we'd have any moderation problem, especially if we had any moderators with backbone, instead of the (Who shall remain nameless) Spineless wimps and whiny japs, who fold under any kind of peer pressure. I'm sure they'll all drink, and smoke, and jump off bridges before long.


Actually, it was exactly the opposite. They gave up adminship before their patience ran out and they just started banning users in their own frustration. Deal with users like you, who love walking that thin line, or pass on the responsibility to another user. After 3 years, 2 admins reliquished their power before they did something they regretted.

Gizmog1 wrote:
All the more reason to fuck that noise, and give us a forum. Why is it that IM never quite gives us what we ask for, but always kind of gives us a shift around? Like, instead of letting Mods post on the secret Admin forums, and having a say in any policy, he gives us a mod forum which next to no one visits. Instead of giving us any kind of actual rules, he gives us a fuck around of rules to please his ISP, so he can't get in trouble if we post Kiddy Porn. And now, instead of a General Discussion forum where people'd see it, and use it, and enjoy it, he gives us a journal system semi-squirreled away, which isn't used very heavily, and which is supposed to be self moderating, but I don't think that part even works. If I asked for a cherry tree, he'd probably bake me an apple pie.


Quite frankly because I don't trust you, Giz. You didn't need access to all of Hush Hush just to give input on rules and regulations. I had said it from the start, I didn't want the rules to be focused on limitng user activity as much as I wanted it to lay down guidelines for moderators and administration to follow. If you run into an issue, this is how it will be handled, and these are the issues that shoud not be tolerated. The casual poster that is using this board as it is intended to be used (CP is a board centered around amateur game design, after all) won't violate the ToS.

Yes, it's a safeguard for me. I can delete your thread and link you to the ToS section you violated. Prior to the ToS, it was a constant hassle....delete a thread, person makes the thread again along with a quote of the PM they received and claim the deletion was unfair. PM correspondences and frustration ensued.

Again, I've gotta ask, what sort of general discussion do you really want out of a General Discussion forum that you can't have using the journal system? It's not a part of the main forum? That can easily be rectified by making the forum name a hyperlink to the journal system, but I'd rather not add yet another forum when sticking it in the description of the old General Discussion gives you the same link.

I'm not here to babysit certain game designers who can't seem to talk nicely about eachother in an online forum. Take it to your journal where I don't have to deal with your nonsense. Given what I know about you, your previous actions, and your concept of General Discussion as viewed in IRC and various threads throughout CP, giving you a free reign in a General Discussion forum is just asking for more trouble than it's worth, headaches, and added stress. In my eyes, it's a disaster waiting to happen, and you can't seem to go more than a month without reaffirming that thought in my mind.

It should be noted, no matter what type of pie you ask me to bake, it'd come out burnt beyond recognition.
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