Castle Paradox

[Pepsi Ranger]

I recently had a design discussion with another community member involving a game of mine that I had been working on off and on for the last few years and as a result I started thinking about whether or not my design methods actually work. So I thought I'd get the community's opinions on the matter so that I can decide whether or not I need to make two versions of the said game (one for the community and one for myself).

Here's the plate:

Those of you who played The Adventures of Powerstick Man will know that there are a lot of NPCs who are there primarily for atmosphere, and not necessarily to advance the story line. Granted, I thought they were all either interesting or amusing, but I found out recently that not everybody views them the same way. In fact one person thought that they were actually depressing, so much to the point that they more or less robbed the player from an enjoyable experience.

For a long time I was under the impression that this was the unique element that kept people playing my game, but now I'm wondering if it really works. I think the argument was that it was a pain to sift through all the unimportant NPCs and their unimportant dialogue in order to find those people who were important. My thought going into the game design initially was that it would be completely unrealistic for everybody to have something important to say, not to mention it could feasibly fatigue a player to remember a crap load of important information. But on the same token I personally don't enjoy a game world where there are only a handful of people to talk to in a given town for the sake of keeping information minimal and irrelevance absent, so that's why I wanted to have a hefty number of NPCs walking around in my game, even if only 5% of them offered something relevant to the story line.

The second issue that came up (and this is actually an old issue that surfaced during its first month of release) is the travel method I employed. I personally get tired of relying on world maps for just about every single RPG that I play, so I wanted to adopt a style similar to that of one of my favorite RPGs of all time called Earthbound, and that is to have a "close-up" travel path where environmental maps are linked together rather than portrayed as one giant world map. I liked it when Earthbound used it, I liked it when Secret of Mana used it, and I liked it when Powerstick Man used it. But it seems that some people don't share this feeling.

The last issue deals with town size. Again I personally get tired of exploring towns that have virtually nothing to offer, or are too small to really enjoy, so that's the main reason why I used the multiple map system for Powerstick Man's towns. I also thought that since the game takes place in the present, the towns should reflect the size of a modern day populace. But the recent discussion revealed that not everybody sees this the way that I do, and that there is a reason why every other game uses only one map for a town.

So having said all that, my question is what do other designers think about these issues?

1. Is there a point when NPCs just get on your nerves? Do they need to be exclusive to the story line? Or is my usage of NPCs just fine and the person I discussed this with just having a bad day?

I've thought of two possibilities for this dilemma. The first possibility is simply to cut at least half of my existing NPCs from the next version so that the game will be more "direct" and "streamlined," so that those who don't like talking to people or to experience atmosphere in a game don't have to that much. I'm personally not in favor of this method since I like atmosphere (to me that's what separates games from each other), but if it's frustrating to play my game because of it, then I should consider the possibility. The second possibility is to color code the dialogue backdrops to signify to the player what's relevant to the story line and what's just there for filler. For example, the game begins with Powerstick Man getting commissioned as a superhero by the director of the chemical factory, and he is offered his first weapon in the exchange. Obviously this is important to the story line, so the dialogue backdrop color would be black (which is currently the only color used). On the other hand, the derelicts who are cleaning the place up, commenting on how much they hate it when sweat stains their shirts could be green, signaling the player that there isn't really anything important to be taken from this information, so treat it with a laugh instead.

2. Does the "close-up" method of town to town traveling truly not work? I know that the world map perspective is the popular route, but does it really make a difference?

I know that one of the big complaints about the current method is that traveling back and forth can be time consuming and tedious. There's already a remedy in place in the form of "Bus Passes." Essentially, once you reach a given town, you can purchase Bus Tickets and Bus Passes (for different prices obviously) from the shops. The tickets are good for a one-time trip to the town you bought it in, where the passes are permanent (and a lot more expensive). Once you visit each town, you won't actually have to travel the "quest" maps anymore if you don't want to, unless you're trying to reach a destination that is not within city limits (like the factory for example).

I'm not too keen on throwing out my whole travel system in order to implement a world map (although I'm still contemplating the possibility of designing the Hardcore Countryside in V3 as a world map, though I'm not sure yet), but I still want to garner opinions on the matter. Can the close-up method still work for Powerstick Man (while exploring the Cannonball Strip), or am I doing the game a disservice for having it. And what about the bus pass system? Will that work as a good alternative to the tedium of walking everywhere?

3. Are the town maps way too large? For those who haven't played the game yet, the towns are set up with an even number of screens. The first town for example has four sectors, the island town has two sectors, and the city has six. The remaining two towns in the Cannonball Strip are planned to have two sectors each. Again, I prefer this method since I get painfully tired of exploring tiny towns with nothing memorable to offer, but what do you guys think? Does it work, or is it overkill?

As of yet I don't have a remedy in place for this since I really don't think I should have to implement one. The only thing I can think to do better is to offer more subplots within the city limits to make being there seem more important than just an excuse to talk to people who may or may not have something important to say. I suppose in actually writing that down I can see where of course that would be preferable. But I also thought that I did have some decent story elements in place for each town already, so I don't know where exactly I've dropped the ball here.

And those are my questions. Please respond with as much detail as possible, using examples of personal preference rather than using examples that may or may not have worked for another game. Keep in mind that this game isn't all those other games you have played. They each had their own formula. This is not they. This is The Adventures of Powerstick Man. I value your opinions, but I don't want to hear how it fails because it doesn't perfectly model Final Fantasy 6 (or Earthbound for that matter). I'm also not looking for logical explanations in your responses (e.g. "Well I liked talking to all the random nuts in Cannonball City, but I can see how others who prefer to be straightforward might not enjoy it so much," or "Chris Crawford says blah blah blah."). If you liked talking to all the random nuts of Cannonball City (or if you know that you enjoy that kind of thing), then tell me. Or if you think they all wasted your precious time, tell me that then. Please don't tell me how you think other people will respond to the game. Let them tell me instead.

Thanks.
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Progress Report:

The Adventures of Powerstick Man: Extended Edition

Currently Updating: General sweep of the game world and dialogue boxes. Adding extended maps.

Tightfloss Maiden

Currently Updating: Chapter 2

[Fenrir-Lunaris]

In FFH and what's there in TSSE for that matter, large cities are realistically only slightly larger than small podunk hamlets. The difference between the two is actually simple, in that you see plenty of buildings that you can't get to, and are blocked off by scenery. In other words, I create the illusion that the town is larger by filling up the surrounding areas with houses, roads, wells, crops, etc, instead of empty fields or dense overgrown forests.

I also like the idea of having a crapload of NPCs walking around town instead of just a few. Opening scene of Coneria, walk in, and there's 20 guys running around, none of which actually do anything to further the plot. They create atmosphere, true, but they actually serve no major purpose other than to make the city look like a city.

[Minnek]

Ah yes... NPCs. I tend to find having half the NPCs say something interesting and half them saying something pertinent to the game, or gameplay is most enjoyable. (That's for me, anyway.) I'd say maybe 20 townfolk is enough; after that, it feels like overkill. (That actually might be 30, but I'm too lazy to check how many guys I have running around Narces currently. I took the number from there because I designed the town to feel right, and it does. Eh.) Them's my thought(s).
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[Shadowiii]

I'll be brief, because I'm tired.


1. No. This is what made Powerstick Man fun, in my opinion. Most NPC's didn't say dumb crap, or they didn't say something way over relevent to the story. Like when you walk into some random town in FF7, and before you even ASK anybody (or your character does anyway) they say, "Oh yeah, a guy in black walked through here carrying a big sword and is headed to that crack in the mountain that you can only get to by riding the chocobo to avoid the giant snake that'll take out your party until you are at least level 50 or so." NPC's need to be...human. I hate it when they are dumber then the hero (which is 99% of all NPCs in almost all games) in that they have no idea what is going on, all they do is run (except the ones that become heroes or die), and they either say useless blather "hi!" "Welcome to our villiage!" or the FF7 example.

Erm, yeah. I also dislike where you find out everything from a main character (that is, all the information you get in the game is only from a few select people, the NPC's are idiots who have no idea what is going on). That is completely unrealistic and just plain stupid.

2. & 3. For Powerstick Man, I think it works great. It gives the game a sense of realism, even if it does make the game DANG tedious at times. Generally, I think the reason people dislike it is because they are lazy from playing games with world maps or wher eyou can get around a town in seconds (Xenogears). But youy have to be sure to stick to a style: if you have HUGE cities, with rodes connecting, make sure the world map is gone. If you have small cities, make the world map.

The towns would be more interesting if there were, say, a TON of mini-sidequests as you walked. Just stupid things, finding a cat, cleaning a house, so mething to pass the time.
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But enough talk, have at you!

[Grandtrain]

I think the amount of NPCs are pretty amazing. I do find their conversation interesting. However, there are times where I would just want to go to the next mission. Coloring the text boxes will not work. Just by looking at the sprite, you should be able to tell if the npc is important. This can be done in a couple of ways. The one I see most often is that the special NPC will have a lot more details.

[sephy99]

I am currently working on a big city in Genesis so I can relate to the first two aspects of your game. Personally, at least in Genesis, all the non-playable characters in the general town atmosphere sometimes have something pertaining to the plot to say; however, it is not required that you talk to them to further the story. Basically, random NPCs become annoying when you HAVE to talk to them to further the plot through tags or general plotscripts.

You can still have story related items like "I hear Professor Carpaloloingolstadinopalos lost his only daughter in a terrrible fire... he has never been the same really." But this way the player better grasps the plot while not being required to listen to the character.

Also, the NPCs themselves sould be interesting. For example, in one of the maps (of a multi-mapped city) I have a NPC leaning up against a rail smoking a cigarette and chatting it up with his girlfriend. By making the NPCs blend with the scenery the player wants to interact with them.

Sometimes, it is even fun to make fun of typical RPG elements through the NPCs such as have one say "I am so late for my meeting! If only I wasn't wandering aimlessly without any real destination in life" and setting the NPC to wander. Funny dialogue (which you seem to use) is extreamly useful in getting the player to interact.

[Pepsi Ranger]

[sephy99]

Well, I realized that I didn't really deal with the connecting maps between towns and such like I had intended to do so here are my two cents on that issue as well.

First, and probably most important of all the points is to make every map in your game unique. After looking at some of the connecting road screenshots from a review of your game it strikes me that these connecting maps are very monotonous graphically (although not having played the game I can't really apply this to all the roads). While I realize that you may not excel at graphics there are other methods to reduce the boring factor of walking down these roads. Seeing as you want a more realistic approach, you could make a bird walk in a small section of the road (and have it "caged" in with step on NPCs) and as you approach the boundaries have a plotscript make the bird fly off as they would in real life. Slight touches like this set a game apart from others.

Second, I get the impression that there are battles along this connecting road. I personally hate random battles like nothing else in an RPG, and I also feel that giving a player options will allow a much wider audience to enjoy the game. For example, you could give the player an item which completely eliminates battles via plotscripting upon use and then turns off when you use it again. This would be helpful to people like me who have odd urges to power level but then get frustrated at battles that get in the way of a major plot point. Example: I really want this spell that I need five more levels to get... so I power level in one specific area before going on and get this spell I want. However, now I must fight random battles until I get to this story segment and by this time I am completely battled-out. Thus, I could simply use this item and go on with the story.

Third, and more on the NPC topic, make your towns breathing self supporting areas. What I mean by this is that by simply tossing in 100 wanding NPCs does not make for a good city. You must make your cities where if you as the player where to enter a city map you would blend in with the rest of the city. Think of it like this, if the camera where to focus on a small area of the city and the player wasn't there... the player should feel like that city doesn't DEPEND on him/her to still exist. In the case of the 100 wandering NPCs, this cannot be for without the player, those NPCs are mindless drones. This last point is difficult to express, but if you understand what I mean then that will help your game out a lot.

Note: grammar has never been my strong point if this confuses you in any way.

[TMC]

Sorry for the later reply,

1: I thought that those hunderds of non-plot relevent npcs were interesting. They added a great deal to the atmosphere.

[Pepsi Ranger]

All right, guys. Thanks for the feedback. Your comments are helpful.

I'll have to save this page for future reference.
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Progress Report:

The Adventures of Powerstick Man: Extended Edition

Currently Updating: General sweep of the game world and dialogue boxes. Adding extended maps.

Tightfloss Maiden

Currently Updating: Chapter 2

[Harbinger]

I haven't played it yet (I will shortly, to give you more feedback), but here's my take on the NPCs...

don't change them physically, but DO change the graphics. For example, put Exclamation points, or question marks in their walkabout (or in a separate NPC that disappears when you speak to the important one, if the main walkabout doesn't have room in it). These people will have important things to say, or quests you can do... the people just walking around will just talk.

I think that's your best best for solving the NPC problem -- best of both worlds. You get your atmosphere and they get their to-the-point plot. Zing.

[Ssalamanderr]

I only played the beginning part of Pwerstick Man. The reason I quit was the battles actually. I found them to be too long and boring. However, I like lots of NPCs to talk to, as long as they say something interesting, "Welcome to Corneria!" doesn't work. I also like large maps as long as their are enough things to do in them. Having large maps for the sake of having large maps probably isn't a great idea. I like the bus tickets though. The maps should have atmosphere as well as the NPCs.


A relevant 8-bit Theatre comic: http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010412
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